How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 1, Episode 4 · 1 year ago

Black Swan: “You Got Enough…Cheese?”


In Episode 4, Isabel and Lauren jump forward in time to discuss a more recent movie, Black Swan, which came out in 2010 and was directed by Darren Aronofsky.

Join us as we talk about how this was not the movie we thought it was, how the internet lied to us, and how the director must think we're completely oblivious to symbolism. 

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art! 

Thanks for listening!

Hi Everyone, and welcome to how have we never seen this before? This is a podcast where two best friends discuss iconic movies that, well, neither of us have ever seen before. I'm Isbell and I'm Lauren and this is how have we never seen this before? Hope you enjoy. The winner of this week's guess the movie contest is one of my good friends, aiden. He really wanted to win and he answered correctly within probably the first twenty minutes of US posting. So congratulations, aiden, and if you want to be given a shadow at the beginning of one of our episodes, make sure to follow us on Instagram at how have we never podcast and check out our instagram story every week. Hi Everyone, and welcome to episode four of how have we never seen this before? This week we watched Black Swan. We picked this one because in last week's episode we were talking about the back deal test and how we wanted a movie with a strong female weed and women empowerment in general, and, given that we know nothing about these movies, we picked this one because it passed the test. However, no clownery is the real here. I mean, I guess she's strong in some ways, but it's definitely not. Well, I wouldn't say very women empowering, and there's definitely violence towards women, and unfortunate because we picked so poorly. Yeah, I kind of thought going into this that we would be discussing a movie about some dancers and the struggles that come with dancing. Yeah, we were so wrong, so wrong. Yeah, like, I knew it was a thriller, and so here's, here's the one thing I did know about the movie. There's this text post that goes around instagram. I don't know if you see yeah, okay, so it's a tumbling text post and it's nataliportment. Nina is the character's name, and she's it says she's in this public bathroom with this word written across a mirror and red bopstick. And like the big problem with it that everyone comments on is that she's in a public bathroom. How would you know that's for her? But then after watching the movie, that texts was completely fake, like she's not a public bathroom. Yeah, they're also wondering why she's wearing a longsleeve shirt under her hangtop, but that's also explained in the movie. Yeah, I, like whoever commented on that had had no idea what they're talking about and I just believed it, which is so fortunate. Moral of the story. Don't believe everything you see on the Internet, pretty much also all the reviews about this movie. But Anyway, let's get into it. So the first scene is Natalie Portman on a stage completely the stage is completely black, with like a single spotlight on her. She's in white, in a white Tutu, and she's also one point there's also a pretty scary devil man with feathers. And then she wakes up and we realize that this is all a dream and it kind of pans around her room and the first thing I noticed was that there's so many stuffed animals. Yeah, I thought that she was supposed to be like a teenager or something. Yeah, but I looked it up and she's supposed to be twenty eight. How she supposed to be that old? She also talks like she's very young to her mother, because they have that like the relationship is very messed up. But yeah, it's like very clear that the way her mother treats hers not like a Woman Who's almost thirty. HMM. So after she gets up, she goes out into this kitchen and her mom gives her breakfast and it's this tiny egg and half a grapefruit and she eats none of it and gets up to leave. So I was thinking, like, is there in eating disorder element to this movie? And she does look very, very small the entire movie, but ballerinas are also very lean, but they also have a lot of muscle. So, yeah, she's so tiny in this whole movie. I read somewhere that at least melacuonist she lost twenty pounds for this and she normal only weighs like a hundred and twenty pounds. Oh my God. So they both lost so much weight for this, which is crazy. So after she leaves her apartment, she's on the train and I know she she's looking in the window of the subway and I was just noticing her scarf.

It looks like feathers, which I thought was interesting. We're picking up on these things now. I'm really really noticing the movie things, the symbols. Yeah, symbols. Then she looks through another window that's like between the two train cars and it's this girl with a button her hair. She just notices her. She can't see your face or anything. She's just kind of looking around and then this girl gets off. I think it's like a stop before her, which is strange when you find out who she is later. But she gets off the train and it looks like she's at Juilliard, I think, and she walks in and she goes into the dressing room and she's sitting there and there's two or three other girls in the room and they're complaining about how their dance companies broke because of their old principal dancer and how they need a new one because she's almost forty. And Mina tries to explain that will this other woman she was dancing until her S, but they're like know this, our corpets with dancers like burned out and yeah, and this is also the first glimpse you kind of get at the dancers. Name is Beth, so you kind of get a glimpse of Minna's admiration for her. Yeah, she like she wants to be like best, she wants to be that perfect lead. And then Mela Kunist runs in and it turns out she's the girl from the train. Listen, I love me laconist. I didn't know she was in this movie at first because I literally knew nothing about it. I did know she was in this, but I didn't know what part she played. Okay, and then they are starting their dance practice for the day and there's probably about like twenty or thirty of them in there and they're all doing purouettes and pleas and things what have you. And then this man comes in and they all like strip till less clothes. Yeah, I was confused by that. I was very confused by that. But now that it's like, now that I've watched it, I think maybe it's kind of like his creepy thing. Oh yeah, definitely. And then he starts walking around the dance studio and he's and he goes around, he taps girls on the shoulder. You don't know if that's good or bad, because he's not doing it like menacingly or anything. But then he said as that they are doing Swan Lake, but it's done so many times that they need a new version of it and for this they need a new principal dancer. So the people that he tapped, they don't get to be the Swan or the Swan's twin. So the whites on on the Black Swan, although like in the actual story. They're different people. They are traditionally played by the same Ballerina and it's really clear that there's going to be a lot of competition between all the girls. And then after practice is over, Nina is standing outside of the principal dancers dressing room and there's a lady throwing things and I think she just found out that she's fired pretty much. So after she storms out and leaves, Nina goes inside this dressing room and it's clear that she's kind of like dreaming about being that principle dancering and having that room ups herself. And then she puts on this woman's lipstick. Watching these movies from the perspective of living in a global pandemic, it just sends like a chill down my spine every time I see something. Yeah, someone do something gross. It's like we never really cared about gems. And then she she just takes a lipstick with her, like that's even more gross. That's just creepy. Although I do have a stolen chnel lips and I was thinking. I was like, who do I know? That's stolen lipstick, and then I realized it was you. Okay, I stole it by accident. Someone stole my eye coat, so the only way to keep warm and Syracuse was to steal someone else's, and it had a Channell lift stick in it and I kept it my favorite lipstick to this day. Yeah, okay. But then after she leaves this dressing room, she goes into the practice room where this man who had come into the studio earlier tells all the girls who weren't tapped to go to audition for the lead role. I also notice that she's the only girl wearing a white everyone else is all wearing black, so it's like, oh, she's gonna get the role. So she does her dance for the White Swan and after she's finished, this man, he comes up really, really close to her and whispers in her ear like if we were only doing the White Swan, it would be you and Oh, so creepy. I was so grossed out by that. Like after telling everyone, or like having everyone take more like clothes off in the this is not setting a good tone for him. And then he tells her to do the Black Swan dance. She starts doing it...

...and then she doesn't complete it because and she most falls over because you lacunist who we find out her name is lily. She comes in late and it distracts Nina and she's like done, yeah, and he won't let her go again. And then it cuts to the bathroom and it it just shows her feet and I wasn't sure if maybe she threw up, putting into the eating disorder thing. It's not clear. Well, it kind of is if you keep watching it, like every time she goes into the bathroom stall she's either crying or throwing up. Oh, yeah, I just mean at this this one. For me, it's not like you can't tell if it's that's why she's in there. I kind of just assumed because of the culture around being a ballerina. Yeah, and and from everything from before with her mom as well. So then she starts walking home. There's a lady walking towards her dressed in all black and as she gets closer and closer it, the face looks like her face, but you only see it for a second and then she passes and kind of disappears. That's kind of at the start of her it's, I say, like hallucinations about herself. And then she gets home. Immediately she goes to practice because she like she needs it to be perfect than I, because it wasn't perfect. MM. And she gets up and it zooms, zooms in on her foot while she's spinning and there's like this crack. She thinks their shoe off and her toneail crack. To have it was so gross. That must hurt so bad to have your little but then her mom like helps her up like bandages it and she puts her in bed and she puts a music box on and I was like, Oh, she must be she must be like really young. She's flaming with her mom, the way her room is now, like knowing that she's twenty eight. It's just verifies everything that I was telling weird it was. Yeah, it's off putting. Almost the other whole relationship is very toxic. So then she wakes up and gets on the train again and she puts on that girl's lipstick again. No, just not right. And she gets to the dance studio. She goes into the boss's Office to Moss and she tells him that she practiced the dance and I remember this a lot and I hate that I wrote this book. Like he caresses her face, which is what he does so many times, like caresses her face and then says he already shows someone else, Victoria, right, the really mean girl. Yeah, this this one other girl who is complaining about Beth, the other principal answer earlier and also the main competition for this role. And she says, okay, I understand, I just wanted to tell you that. And he goes open the door and then slams it shut and is like, why didn't you try to change my mind? Wait, this whole situation reminds me of when we are discussing rocky, when he blocks her from leaving his house. Yeah, remind me of that. It's so uncomfortable, like why do you think that that's sexy? Do you know it's really hot? Couldn't sent letting a girl leave when she wants to, maybe even opening the door for someone, not slamming it shut face? Yeah, unfortunate, bad choice. Shouldn't picked this movie anyway. We should not. He says that when he looks at her, all he sees is a White Swan, like you gotta let loose. You could be the Black Swan. And he says that he's never seen her lose herself and she's so sessed with perfection. And but perfection isn't just about control, it's also about being able to let go. And then he just straight up kisses her. Yeah, that's a salt. Yeah, it's like that's my God. But and then she bites him and like yes, bite him, get him away from you, but he's like happy about it. Yeah, it's almost like he was expecting that type of reaction for her and wanted that to happen. Yeah, discussing, and then she's really upset. She's been crying because now she's like, I'm there's no I'm going to get this, like I bit him. And then another girl comes up and says that the list, first one lake, has been posted and she says congratulations to Victoria because she just assumed she's got it before she even sees the list. And then Victoria goes to look and like yells at her, like why would you say that, as like some kind of stick joke, because Nina actually got the role. Hmm, but everyone else is congratulating her, which I don't know, I didn't expect. Everyone seems so cutthroat. I didn't know if I would. Yeah, I didn't expect that either, because she has no friends. Yeah, she has. Think people would even like say anything to her. And then this is the scene. So this is one. As soon as she finds out she got the part, she goes into the bathroom to call her mom and she tells her she got the part. And then as soon as she comes out of the stall, she looks at the mirror and...'s I think it's the same red lipstick that she's sot like. I'm assuming it's not real when she's imagining this at this point where she wrote it herself or something. Yeah, I think she is either imagining it or she did herself. And it says horror on the mirror. I don't know why I think that's so funny. At least for me, it's because I was so completely wrong about what I thought this movie was. Yeah, I don't know, I just don't think I'm offended by if someone said that to me, I don't think I'd be offended. Yeah, because you could say so many worse things these days. That's definitely true. I don't know, maybe I'm just messed up. Now she's home. is you see this room with all these paintings of her? She's just creepy in itself, and the creepiest one that eyes definitely moved. So then she goes to the bathroom and she takes a shower and I she gets out of the bathroom, you see these scratches on her back and she's bleeding, but you hear her mom come home and is soon as she hears her mom come home she tries to cover it up and just get rid of all the blood and she comes out and her mom has this giant cake for her because she's so proud of her that she got this lead role. And her mom starts to cut a really big piece of the cake and she hells her Oh, don't, don't cut it so big, and then her mom gets so mad and she goes to toss entire cake in the in the trash. I just thought that was so weird because it's pretty typical when someone's cutting you a piece of cake, you always have to go no, no, no, just a sliver, just the slim like obviously Nina does have like some sort of eating disorder, but at the same time, like I don't think it's too obscene for her to ask for smaller piece. Yeah, and I think also that it's possible her mom is bipolar, like has some mental illness. It just doesn't. I really wish that in this movie it would show like some sort of process of someone getting help, because the mom needs help. The mom knows her daughter has a problem, yeah, but still won't get her help. I think it's also difficult, though, because her mom was a dancer as well and was told to probably be smaller or kept pushing herself so hard that it just built up and she might not think it's a problem anymore, hmm, or that something that can't be helped. True, but then also, you see throughout the movie, I guess she kind of tells Nina that she's working too hard, like wants her to take breaks when she's not feeling right, but at the same time as she telling her not just beend so much time so she can be with her. That's a good point. Yeah, I don't know, there's a lot to unpack. Yeah, so after she throws away the cake and everything, it jumps back to another dance practice and it's definitely clear that it's the White Swan dance. But at this point to moss is talking to her about how she should become the evil twin and is like, he says, get ready to give me some of that bite like no, do not bring up the time you sexually assaulted her. I think it was just so gross because it kind of like asserts his dominance over her even more, the fact that he can just openly refer to the time that he assaulted her. It was not not ideal, know. And then after he says this, it shows Nina going to watch the normal practice where all the other ballerinas are practicing. It's a moss comes in and says we'll look at Lily. She's imprecise, but she's not faking being in precise. That's just who she is. But at the same time I was also thinking, isn't the whole point a ballet to be precise? Like, yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Aren't you supposed to be perfect as a ballerina? But maybe it's this whole Contemporary Swan Lake version that you're not supposed to be? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. And Lily's also from California, so it's like a different lifestyle from vibe. Yeah, really, pass the vibe check Nina's it's not. No, no, after the dance practice we are at a party. Tom is leading Nina through a crowd and then it is taking her upstairs to make a toast, but also I was worried he was going to take her all the way up the stairs and attack her or something, just because that's the vibe I was getting from him. He also does not in fact pass the VIBE test, not at all. Oh my God. So he makes a toast and while he's doing that, Nina's looking down at her finger and she's picking at it and it starts to bleed, and Tom says that the old principal dancer is retiring at the end of the season. It's also important to note that he calls Beth, the old principle dancer, little princess, as that comes up later, and then he also presents Nina... the crowd as the new principal dancer, and Lily laughs pretty loudly and I can be heard throughout the whole Party. And after that that toast, Nina goes to the bathroom to wash your hands, to stop her fingers from bleeding. As someone who compulsively takes out their fingers, I realize that this is a problem that maybe I should fix, because I see what it looks like now from an outsider's perspective. But it's not as bad as this point where she like tries to pull the skin and then it peels back half of her finger and then someone knocks on the bathroom door and then she like blinks and it's gone and her finger wasn't bleeding at all. And it's Lily who comes into the bathroom and introduces herself. Also takes off her underwear, I don't know, and she asked me to stay in the bathroom just so like talk, but he's like I have to leave. Okay. This is where I don't like Nina. She puts up with everybody's crap except for Lily. Lily's trying to be your friend and she's so mean to her and so nice to everyone else, even though they all walk over her, and it's like up and like. At this point I didn't really feel like lily was trying to take her spot or anything. She wasn't as competitive as everyone else at that point. But also, Lily's her supposed blood sister. She like says that later. Yeah, they're they're blood sisters because they're in the same troupe, and I don't know if she ever was trying to take her part. I don't know if that's like the paranoia that Nina had, if everything was in her head or not. Yeah, well, I'd honestly, I don't. I don't know that she was because, like, she does talk to Tomm but it's not like, I don't know, it never seemed that malicious. Like it seems malicious from Nina's point of view, but it I don't know, it doesn't seem that bad. HMM, exactly. We'll get into it, though. so as Nina leas the bathroom, Toma is right outside and he's leading her out of the Party and is like, Oh, you should stop at my house for drinks before you go home. That when I was like, is she old enough for that? Turns out she is, and she's looking at this statue of a man without arms but with wings, which is a symbol for later, which I now realize. Yep, why you're doing such a good job. I'm really analyzing the movies, though. I'm so proud of you. I mean, the last two have made us think a bit more, I feel. Yeah, I feel like this one the symbols aren't as subtle. Perhaps, HMM, I don't know. But are she standing at this statue? She goes to like turn around and bath throws behind her. Beth says, Oh, you must have done something to make him pick you, and he says we don't all have to do that, which is oh, yeah, that's a little rude. Well, she imagine if someone drunkenly came up to you and asked if you performed sexual favors to get your job. Like that's basically what she said to her, I know, but she's implying that. She's implying both them flying, that they folks left with him. It's just like, don't do that. Build each other up, don't tear each other down. I know. What about the women empowerment that we are looking for this week? Did Not find it at all. Not I have yet to see a woman become empowered. She goes to this man's house and he says to her there shouldn't be any boundaries between them. That's a red flag. That's a huge redful, like and there should be boundaries between you and your choreographer. Yeah, and like the questions he asks. He asks is she's had a boyfriend, asks how many, and then asks she's a virgin, and then he's when she says no, he's like, Oh, then there's nothing to be embarrassed about. That's something to be embarrassed about in the first place. Yeah, I just I hate him. He sucks. He's awful. Oh, and then he's like, okay, I'm going to bed, you can leave. She was only there for like five minutes. Yep, that was it. And then she goes home and her mom's like, Oh, you were you were out late, and she asked her about asks her about these earrings she's wearing and they're important later and they're also important now, but I didn't realize it till later, so I want to talk about it later. But Nina's like, oh no, I don't worry, mom, they're fake. And then I felt uncomfortable because her mother insisted on taking her dress off for her, and then she sees these scratches on her back. Nina tries to play it off as like a rash or something, and her mother forced her to cuttle her nails off, because she explains that this is something that they did compulsively before. And then she takes a scissor and cuts off all our nails. Also, how...

...come they don't own a pair of Nail Flippers? Yeah, I feel like cutting them with scissors is just going to make them more jagged, and they don't file them like that's going to make it worse. But then she makes up the next morning. Oh, we forgot about this. So basically, the previous night at Tom's house, he informs her that she needs to touch herself by the next rehearsal. And so she wakes up the next morning and, you know, starts really getting into it. All the stuffed animals are watching, but also and her mom's watching. Well, I don't know if she's watching. She's asleep. But you why is your mom asleep in a chair in her room? In the first one, I I could not tell you. I guess the what. Also, why wouldn't you? How do you not notice your mom just sitting there? Yeah, not hot. Did Not pass the fine check. And then after that unfortunate encounter, she goes backstance practice and they find out that Beth is in the hospital, and I kind of thought that tomat did something the same. Once again, we expected something more sinister than what happened. So basically, he explains to Nina that she, like after the party best, just walk into the street and got hit by a car and he thinks that she did it on purpose. And then he goes to caress hiss face, but he takes both his hands and his hands are bigger than her entire face. Every time he even came close to her. I wanted to scream and grow up at the same time. It was awful. And then Nina goes to visit Beth in the hospital and she leaves her flowers and then she then she decides to like lift up the sheet. Why? Someone is in a coma and it's probably your fault and you just go to the hospital and look under her gown what like? That's why would you do? Like what? And she don't understand and she sees these scars and she freaks out and then backs into a nurse and like runs away. But like, why would you do that? I don't know. I guess maybe. I don't know. I think maybe she did it just to see her future. Yeah, and like look at someone who is kind of succumb to the pressures of being the principal dancer under Tom's direction. HMM. Well, after that, she she goes to the principal dancers dressing room, which is now all hers. So maybe it is kind of like solidifying that Beth is gone, but she lays out several things. It moves really fast and it was kind of hard to tell what each of the things were, but there was a nail file and then a lipstick and then there were like three other things, which we kind of see them more clearly later. But after this point she goes home and she's he's here taking out the trash and she sees this other trash which is like a a wooden beam, and then she takes the beam and tries to barricade her door so that she can't her mother wouldn't be able to open it very far, and it works, but she her mother starts coming, so she hides under her bed. Yeah, it's just interesting because why isn't there a lock on the bathroom door? Why isn't there a lock in her room? It kind of shows the control that she has, the mom has over her daughter, her twenty eight year old, grown adult daughter. And then she goes to another dance practice and Toma tells her to let loose again, and then Tomas not happy and then he asks the mail dancer if he would sleep with Nina and he's like no, but like why did you ask that that's and then he goes on to say that no one would have sex with her. Yeah, but then the lights go out and Tom I was like you're just frigid, like and then the lights come back on and he says everyone can go, but she has to stay. Red Flag, red flag, and then the mail dancers like have fun youtube and he starts a Toma, stops, starts dancing with her to help her practice, and he like feels her up and tells her to respond to his touch and then he kisses her and he's like open your mouth, and it's like this isn't teaching, this is this is this is a salt. UN To stop. I I'm like home alone right now and I had to like stop because I was saying out loud it you by myself. The only time she kind of dances with passion is when she's trying to get away from him, if you noticed that. And then after that he kind...

...of just like leaves and she's still there hours later. Yeah, and she kind of pleads for him to come back. She's, I guess, Stockholm Syndrome or something. Yeah, kind of, or maybe it's because he's the only guy that's ever really shown affection towards her because she's under her mom's thumb so much that she hasn't really been able to date people. MMM. Well, she did tell him she had a few boyfriends, nothing serious. But after that she's still dancing and then are so practicing, and so someone standing in the doorway and it kind of looks like Nina, but it turns out it's Lily, and lily they just are talking while he's like Oh, you're hot for teacher. Like no, he's sexually assaulting her. Yeah, and she's like still defending him, while Lily's saying that he's disgusting, and Nina is so mean to lily at this point too. But I guess it's kind of just defined. Lily should not have said that, but I think lily saying that she should stay away from that. Nina should stay away from Toma because he's creep and she's defending him and then says something mean to lily. HMM, okay, I wrote that she doesn't have any friends because when people try to like look out for her, she kind of brushes them aside. Well, I feel like her mom's kind of taught her to cut people off and only depend on her hmm. And I also think that Nina's kind of hesitant because she's worried that Lily's gonna steal her spot. It's kind of at the back of her mind. HMM. Yeah. So then she's in the bathtub at home and she goes under the water and opens her eyes and it it looks like there's someone on top of her. I don't know, I kind of thought might have been it like look like her mom, but then again it also might have just been another version of herself. Yeah, I think it was the version of herself that she's been seeing. But then there's blood and you can see that there's a scratch on her back again and she can goes to cut her bring her nails and she like she's looking in the mirror and there's a this like evil look, like it like switches for a second and then she like cuts her finger with the scissors. One thing that I really appreciated about kind of the cinematography was that the mirrors kind of showed the two sides of Nina. Yeah, like the White Swan in the Black Swan that is kind of inside her. HMM. Yeah, there's a lot with like reflections and mirrors and m what's real and what's not. But then she goes back to a dance rehearsal and this is where it's just her in the mail lead and Toma tells them to go again and again, and he just he doesn't give her any direction. So she stops halfway through one of the Times. It was like, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? And he says no, like Lily told me, you needed me to be easy on you because you're you're just stressing out too much. And then he tells her to stop being weak. He calls her a coward. Yeah, she needs to stand up to people, but this is not the way to so many problems. And then she goes to find Lilli because she found out that he's that she's the reason that he's not giving her direction, helping her. And I feel like Lily didn't do it to be malicious, like, yeah, I don't think she did it to be to steal her spot. I think that's all in Nina's head. That's the paranoia and she can't like understand that she's trying to be a friend to her because she doesn't have any. Yeah, she's on the train going home and she's filing her nails obsessively and there's this old man like licking his lips at her and making obscene gestures. Hm. But after this encounter, she gets home and the mom asks if the director is taking advantage of her, and she says no, and the her mom says, I don't need to make the same mistakes that I did in my career and the like goes back to just like what career list and she deserved it. Yeah, and then the mom asks about her skin and her scratching at it and she tells her to take her shirt off. And but I think this is the first time that Nina's really said no and put force behind it and really meant it, which I was good. And then someone comes to the door and her mother gets it and then like shoves the door and it was lily, and Lily says she came to apologize about telling to mom about what look what Nina had said to her. HMM. Then us take her out dinner. Nina says no, but then says how about drinks, right when her mom comes out to like tell her to come inside, and then she's like no, I'm gonna leave. At this...

...point, when they get to the restaurant, lily and Nina are talking about how tomm would call Beth his little princess, and Lily was like, Oh, maybe he'll call you that, I i. She was like no, don't be silly, he wouldn't he. That's something like he's not. He just calls Beth best. I think, deep down, though, she was kind of hoping that. And then lily gives Nina a tank top. It's a black tank top. But then lily tells me to that she needs to relax and is like, Oh, you should try this drug. I thought that she was going to give her like Xan x or something like yeah, take the ZANNEX, it'll probably call me down. But no, it was not zanning. It was is molly, and it's like Oh, it'll, it'll relax you wot to loosen you up for really just a few hours. She goes to the bathroom, changed into the tank top and there's a call from her mom and she ignores it. Also like why, why does her mom think it's appropriate to call her? Like she's a twenty eight year old woman, she can go out with whoever she wants, she can stay out however late she wants. It's her life. Yeah, if it were a normal relationship and your mom just calling, you be different, but it's like yeah, my mom called me, I'd be concerned, not like this woman calling me. But as she goes up the stairs from the bathroom, she sees Ar Nina, sees lially dumping the contents of the pill into the drink and then she doesn't care, just drinks it anyway. HMM. And then lily introduces them to two men. One of them Sebastian stand I was wondering why he looks so familiar. Yeah, another important part that I noticed about this was that she introduced herself and said that she was a dancer before she said her name, like that's the only identity that she has, not even her own name. She also, at this point she starts laughing and you can tell that the drugs are really starting to kick in. And then they go to dance and it's like strobe lights when it flashes between her being happy and dancing, and then she's like very depressed and lonely. And then there's also a flash where she has this the really dark makeup on and then she's in the bathroom with some random guy and she then she when she realizes where she is, because she didn't understand what happening. At that point, she walks out of the club and lily catches up to her and they get into a cab and well, they're in the cab going home and then lily tries to touch her and, you know, pushes her hand away, and then they end up back at Nina's apartment and they try to be quiet but they're laughing and her mom comes out and like is asking a where she's been, what she's been doing. The MOM tries to pull nita into her own bedroom and then she slaps her, and then lily and Nina run to Nina's bedroom and barricade the door with that post that she had found earlier, and she tries, the mom tries to get inside, but eventually she just stops. And at that point they start making out. And then, Yep, and then Natalie Porman has sex with me, La Kunis. That's also on her song, but I'll save herself. At the same time, interesting and no, there's an even look on Lily's face for a second, but that face turns out to be like morphing into Nina's face and lily has this tettoo on her back and that also starts to morph into wings, like the Black Swan Wings. See, it's not very subtle. No. And then so when she wakes up, she realizes she's late and she's like she's looking around for Lily. Lily's not there. Eventually she makes to the dance and she sees lily doing her dance, and so mom tells her to go get warmed up. He's not mad, which I was kind of surprised about. I don't know, like this is their dress rehearsal for your big performance and he I don't know, it seems may'd be upset. Maybe he just he's happy that she's not perfect. Yeah, but then as soon as all he's done, she dancing. She comes over to Nina and Nina says, why do you wake me up? She's like, what do you mean? I didn't stay over at your house. She's explaining that like none of that was real. I think this is the first time she'd kind of like really recognizes is that it's a hallucination. She starts thinking that like maybe something's going on there. Now it's NATAS turned to dance and she just keeps watching to Mouston Lily while she's dancing and after this practice she goes to the bathroom and is trying to throw up. She can't, but yeah, so after after that, it's like, I think this is a big turning point for her, because she sets out her music box to fall asleep because her mom is no longer doing that for her, and then she just smashes it to the floor. And then she also grabs all the stuffed animals in her room and she goes and throws him in the trash. That broke my heart, let me tell you. Yeah, they did not deserve what happened to them, honestly, like, if you're going to get rid of them, donate them. But I get it. It's more dramatic to for them to trash. But then she's there practicing for the Final Act, which is where the White Swan jumps to her death, and she's scared to jump because it's just her, like there's just a mattress on the ground, and she jumps and lands in the mattress. But then it's her fitting for the costume and the ASS costume director says...

...she lost weight. She also lost to take her shrug off for the first time, revealing her back and but wow, after she does that, she's looking in the mirror and then it looks like she's scratching her back, but she isn't, like you can see your hands or down, and then her reflection turns around and and after that point she finds out that lily has become her alternate and she freaks out and says it can be anyone, but it can't be because she's obsessed with this idea that lily's trying to take her place. And at that point she's practicing by herself, like it's late at night. She's the only one up in this room and except for the pianist, who's like, dude, I got about, I have a lie, have a life. And at that point, like her, she's looking in the mirror again and her reflection is moving slower than her and like turns around and it's very creepy. And then all the lights go out and she goes to see what it is and she sees a shadow which I'm assuming it is probably her. You couldn't really see what it was, but she's welcome towards the main stage and then she sees and then she sees lily in two months having sex and then lily morphs into Nina and to Moss morphs into the creepy demon guy from the very first scene. This is kind of the point where I assumed that the whole movie kind of shows her descent into schizophrenia. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, and at first I really thought she was an unlikable character who just refused to get help. But then I realized that it's not that. It's not her fault that she's unlikable in that she won't get help. It's part of her skis from at that at that point when she like sees this whocination, she takes off her earrings and I was like, what's what the earrings like? This is something, and this is when I think, like at this next thing just kind of wear like really made sense to me, and she goes to the hospital to see Beth and she leaves her note and also the ear rings, lipstick, cigarettes and perfume, and this was the things that she had lined up on the mirror earlier because she had stolen them all from Beth, and it's kind of like her becoming the principal dancer. That was kind of like if she had those things she could be perfect like Beth was. Oh, and the nail files also there. And then Beth is like, you stole this stuff from me, and then takes the nail file and stabs herself in the face, like through her cheek. But she also morphs into Nina and then she freaks out. Nina freaks out and runs to the elevator and but she has the the nail file in her hand, like then she goes home, she's washing her hands, turns the lights off, goes back for some reason and Beth is standing there and then goes and throws up in the bathroom. And then, if she comes out of the bathroom, she sees all the pictures that her mom is painted of her and they're talking and screaming at her, and then she rips them all off. And then she sees Beth at the door those she thinks she she's best standing in the doorway, but then it's her mom and then, oh, and then the feather things. Yeah, and then she she runs to her room and barricades it and then it sounds like her back is breaking, but it's actually like feathers growing from her back that she pulls it out. I couldn't watch. That was gross. I had to look away. And then her eyes, like the whites of her eyes were all read, and her mom trying to break into the room, but she goes and slams the door on her hand, breaks her hand. But even then, after that, her mom's out of the room, she's not coming in, and then her knees been backwards and she collapses to the floor. There's so much happening in these like two minutes. I know it was a lot to like take none of. And then she wakes up. It's the next morning and she has socks on her hands. HMM, and her music box only has one leg. Oh, another thing that this is when I like finally confirmed put two and two together. It should have probably happened a while ago, but I was certain that the Black Swan is her mental illness. Oh yeah, which like like I inferred from maybe like halfway through, but it's kind of confirmed. Yeah, her Black Swan is like her I'm doing, while she's like her actual self, is the Timid White Swan. And Yeah, so when she wakes up she's such has to go because it's the day of the show and her mom's like no, I called and I told them you're sick. And then her doorknob is completely missing, but then her mom's actually sitting on the doorknob and Nina goes and crushes her mom's already broken hand to get the DOORKNOB and the leaves so that she's at the dance and lily is...

...asking her like what are you doing here? You're supposed to be sick, and the way she says that it seems like she's upset, but I don't know if that's just Nina like thinking that's how she's saying it, or if that's how she actually sounded. But Tom says like Oh, don't worryity has the lily to do it, and she asking like did you announce it to the audience yet, and he hasn't, and she's like well then I'm doing it, and she starts to get ready into the White Swan makeup and he tells her that the only person standing in her way is herself, which, now that I'm reading that makes a lot of sense. I wrote that down too. But also she like goes to get ready in her toes on her right foot are stuck together, but then her left foot is like webbed. It was the nasty got swan feet. And then she goes for her first position for the dance and but then goes on stage and from what I could tell, it look like that first dance goes well and she's herself, like she's still in control. Actually comes off this stage, she sees Tomm he like gives her look and she thinks that means like lose myself, because like the black swan dances coming up. But then she looks across and she sees Lily in the mainmail dancer Kissing, and like she touches him, and then it probably didn't really happen, but it's just a Nina. Yeah, and then she also thinks she's seeing all the other dancers. They're like dancing in a circle and it looks like her her face is like their faces like morph into her face. And as she goes on again, she's being spun around by the that mainmail dancer that was kind of kissing lily earlier, and all this their faces morph again, and then the main mail dancer drops her. I don't know, I thought her knee was gonna like shatter or something. I couldn't tell if it was completely his fault or if it was also her fault because she was so distracted and he seemed so surprised when he dropped her. I know, I like he was like how did that happen? But I don't know what she could have done that would have made him drop her. Yeah, so then she goes to the dressing room and she sees Lily in the Black Swan outfit and then lily morphs into Nina and they're fighting and Nina smashes lily onto the mirror and then lily starts choking her, and then her neck, I guess it becomes a swan neck. I don't know that. I didn't that was weird. But then Real Nina, White Swan Nina, takes a part of this mirror that's just been smashed and stabs her Black Swan Self, which actually turns out like looks like lily again, and she's dead. And then she just drags her into another room and shut the door. Doesn't even never lore, the one person that wanted to be friends with her. I know I's like you, you don't think anything of this. There's like you, I got to keep going, and that's it. And she's now she's in her Black Swan outfit and her eyes are all red, like the whites for either red, and as she's dancing there's like this whishing noise that sounds like she's flying, and like we see her arms. They're like kind of silvery and like our feathers growing. And then her arms become wings and she doesn't have any arms. He only has wings, like the statue from the beginning of the movie. And then the dancings over and her eyes and her arms are back to normal, like after all this applause, and then she goes off the stage. She like goes straight Toma and just makes out with him. You, Yep, I said you, and he's just like happy and smiling about it. No one is anything. I was just like, Yep, I think they know about Toma's relationship with Beth, so they kind of just assume this. Yeah, so now we found out there's one more act and they're going to she's going to find lily and there's blood seeping out of the closet from where she hid her, but she like doesn't go in the closet to check on her anything. She just like take some towels and stuff some at the door and then there's a knock on her door. She opens it up and it's a lily at the door congratulating her and she's very confused. I was confused. I was like who did she kill? But then there wasn't any blood, so she was hallucining the whole thing. And it turns out she actually stabbed herself, did she though? Yeah, that's that's also. I was like, but did she really? And then she pulls a glass out of herself, which you're not supposed to do that. Just leave it in. You're better off leaving it in.

Yeah, but she was trying to kill herself anyway. I feel like she didn't matter she pulled it out or not, to her at least, I don't know. I was thinking like the Black Swan is like her mental illness controlling her, but then she has these moments where she feels like herself and I thought this was that moment. I think she she does have these moments where she's in and out of hallucinations, but they kind of overlap. Yeah, especially as it gets worse and worse, it's definitely harder to tell, all righter to tell by him. And then finally it's at back to the final scene, the final act of the show. And there's blood seeping from her costume when you're like zoomed in on her. But then she runs up this mountain where like the Swan's wist jump off, but you see it from an audious point of view and you don't see any blood, which is why I was thinking, like, did she actually stab anyone? Is this real? And then she jumps and she winds on the cushion and everyone's applauding, everyone's so excited and they go over and they see that there's there's blood, and Jama calls her his little princess, and then she she doesn't care about the blood, like it was perfect, like I was perfect. And then you don't see her die, but that's that's the end. It just cuts to the credits at that point. HMM, I would have loved for this movie to have ended with her waking up in the hospital, speaking to a psychiatrist, getting help, but no. What are your thoughts on the movie? I thought so much during this movie, like the entire time I was thinking and like I like that it made me think, but at the same time it was it was so bad for women. HMM, like not what I wanted. I just I don't know, I thought I found movie, but you can't judge a book by its cover or movie. No body, positivity, no, no diversity, no, no empowerment, no women supporting women. NOPE, none of the above. Okay, I'm conflicted because I did not like this movie, even though critics say it's a masterpiece. I like, I appreciated this cinematography. I think that it was shot really well, but also, at the same time, like some of what they were getting at was so in your face that I felt almost offended that they thought we were that stupid, that we needed these hints, like when her feet turn webbed or when she physically turned into the Swan. Yeah, yeah, I don't know that like they necessarily needed those transformations, like especially the feet and the neck. I could I could understand if maybe, like her back started getting scaly. That would be one thing which happens, which like that was fine, or and then just leave it to the feathers coming from her arms at the end, like her wings. That would have been okay, but everything else it just felt like way too much. Maybe people want to watch these movies without thinking so analytically about them that they don't want people to have to think about these symbols. I think that's the point, that's the whole point of this movie. So, like a lot of them, I could have done without. But I also think, like, yes, the statue was pretty obvious, like, but it was kind of cool, like, but I don't I didn't need all the other stuff. M None empowering movie, Dude. Are we ever going to find one that that's empowering that we haven't seen? Will find an empowering movie we haven't seen, because we have seen some, so they do exist. All right, that's all for now. Well, see you next week. If you'd like to follow us on social media, our instagram is how have we never podcast and our facebook is how have we never seen this before? If you watch our instagram stories, each week we have a guest the movie where we give you some clues and first person to guess the movie gets a shout out at the very beginning of the episode. All right, well, that was it from us for this week. We hope you enjoyed and we'll see you next time. Hey, congratulations, you've made it to the end of our podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening. How have we never seen this before? Is produced by is B barone. The music is by Scott Holmes, the podcast art is by Michael Beaumont over at monitor comics, and our social media is run by Lauren Cola. Thanks for listening.

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