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How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 1, Episode 3 · 1 year ago

Citizen Kane: “What About Rosebud?”

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In Episode 3, Isabel and Lauren discuss, what is considered to be, one of the greatest movies of all time, the 1941 drama Citizen Kane, directed by Orson Welles.

Join us as we talk about breaking the fourth wall, how this movie is actually a fanfic and how frustrating it's been watching women get treated so poorly in the last three movies. 

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art! 

Thanks for listening!

Hi Everyone, and welcome to howhave we never seen this before? This is a podcast where two best friendsdiscuss iconic movies that, well, neither of us, I've ever seen before. I'm is well and I'm Lauren, and this is how have we neverseen this before? Hope you enjoy. Shout out to Clarissa, her instagramis at underscore Hu and stagram underscore, for being the first person to guessthat we are discussing citizen Kane this week. If you would like a shoutout inthe next episode of how we never seen this before, head over toour instagram and be on the lookout for clues on our instagram stories each week. All right, let's get into it. Hi Everyone, and welcome to anotherepisode of how have we never seen this before? This week we watchedcitizen Kane. So last week I said I knew absolutely nothing about the Godfather, and this week I know less than nothing about citizen Kane. Same okay, so I pretty much always thought it was going to be a movie wheresome sort of crime happens and a detective has to solve it. I don'tknow why I thought that, but I did. I literally didn't think anythingof it. But all I knew was that one time Jenna marbles went towatch it and she didn't like it and she kept falling asleep. Wow,that's that's literally the only thing I knew. Also, when I went to findsomewhere to watch the movie, one of the links I clicked was likeRosebud is his sled. I didn't know what that meant, but I justfigured it was something and then moved on from it. They gave away theending in the link to the movie. Yeah, but I don't know,it didn't really like. I didn't mean anything. I mean I guess itkind of ruined it, but I didn't think anything of it. So asthe movie begins, it's just as you're zooming in on this giant mansion andyou're progressively getting closer and closer. For the first two minutes of the movieyou see monkeys in a cage out front and you're just zooming in closer andcloser. So I thought the palace that is zooming in on looks a lotlike the castle from the wizard of Oz, though the wicked witch lives in.I don't with the monkeys to on the outside. I just wasn't surewhat was going to happen. Did the wizard of boss come out around thesame time? That was the s right. I heard no idea wizard of Ozwas color, but not many movies were in color anyway, even whenthat came out. Yeah, so then it starts to snow and we moveinto the snow globe scene where there's a man lying onlike one of those therapistcouches and it zooms in onto the snow globe he has in his hand andthen he whispers rose bud and then it drops to the ground and you assumehe's dead and immediately I was well, first I was surprised at the SnowGlobe didn't break at all. It just kind of rolled and then immediately anurse comes in a second after he dies and I thought maybe she killed him. Maybe we were just used to witnessing violence through watching these films, butI thought this scene would be a lot more sinister than it actually was.I don't know, I just thought someone had killed him. I there wasno promise to had he died, like did he just die of natural causes? Like why did he die? There wasn't anything about that. I guessthat's the point, though. That everyone's looking for a reason to scandalize hisdeath, but in reality it's it wasn't anything. Yeah, so then theyhave that same newspaper effect like they did in the line and the the headlinesaid that Xanadu's landlord is dead, and I was comfusely didn't say the man'sname yet and I was like a Zanna do, a person is Zanna toa place and then it turns out it's a place. There's there's actually toone is like the original one is a pleasure palace, and this man builtanother one for just for himself and it has enough stuff in it for tenmuseums and there's also tons of animals and it's they say it's the the largestprivate zoo in the world. I actually have I have a fun fact aboutthat. Okay, so basically this movie is kind of based off of anotherkind of magazine tycoon. Yeah, William Randolph Hurst, if you know ofhim, and he also had a huge zoo outside of his house, andso it's kind of showing that this movie is kind of about him, butnot really. Yeah, now I will get to that later because I wrotea lot about that. But I also in one of the Amazon. Irun it on Amazon and they have little hints about the movie and that wasone of the things that they said, that it was clearly based on hearstand he also refused to have anything about...

...the movie published in his magazines becausehe was so upset by it. So then we found out it's set inone thousand nine hundred and forty one. It's not that important to the timeFreme, I don't think, but I just wasn't sure when it was set, and we see the large funeral for him and we also find out thatit's Charles Foster Kane, who equals Z and and Dow's landlord, and itmakes sense that he's a really big deal because they do this newspaper effect againand it's in every language. There's Chinese, there's French, several English newspapers,and then they explain that he's a newspaper tycoon. He owns thirty sevennewspapers, radio stations, grocery stores and a list of other things, andI was just thinking, isn't this illegal? You can't have monopolies in everything likethat, and I wasn't sure if that's started after one thousand hundred andforty or if that was always a thing. Like monopolies are illegal and you know, I know nothing, but I do know that a lot of mediaconglomer its own a lot of things like. Yeah, think about Time Warner.That's why it was a big deal when Disney was trying to buy twentycentury Fox. There was a big problem with that because they thought Disney's becominga huge monopoly in the business and you can't have that. Yeah, well, I don't know, it's not like his magazines were the or his newspaperswere the only ones. Like obviously they had competition and that was part ofthe story, but that was like at the beginning. He bought out that'sa bit later he bought out another newspaper, like all of their head people.So towards the middle of his life maybe. I'm not really sure,but after you find out he's dead. They I was kind of confused onthe timeline because it did jump around a lot. You could tell when Kanewas older or younger, but it was a little bit hard with the othercharacters sometimes. But then we meet Walter p Thatcher, who, when Isaw him, the way he was talking, I assumed he didn't like cane atall and thought maybe he's the one who killed him, because I stillwasn't sure that he had died of natural causes. HMM. And he alsocalled him a Communist. Someone else caught him a fascist. Yeah, itwas a lot of a lot of words being thrown and then, well,I think that it's funny that what we've discussed so far, like a lotof the situations, a lot of the name calling that happens back then canbe applied today. Yeah, I think is funny. Yeah, it's beeneighty years and nothing's changed. They also talked about how, when he ownedhis newspapers, he took a lot of stands on issues most of the time, which you can probably say more, but I it's not really a partof journals anymore. You try to remain neutral and give all the facts,but also you should be aware of your biases when you're writing, but youcan't just only say one side of the story like people do. But we'llget into that when we talk about yellow journalism. And they also say thathe was married twice. He had tried to get into political office as well, but he never could. They also explain that some of his newspapers closedor merged during the Great Depression, and I don't know what my note saysthere. Oh, he didn't think there would be a war, right,he said he didn't. He had talked to all of these connections in Franceand Italy and Germany and he said that they were too smart to start awar. And then we find out that that whole thing was just a newsreelabout Charles Knes is death. And the journalists in the room who had justfinished broadcasting this, they said, well, that was great, but it onlytells us what he did, not why he did it. So theydecided that they want to try and figure out, figure out more about him, and they decide to start on his final words, or final word,which is Rosebud. The only thing I didn't under to know was how doeseverybody know that that was his final word? Yeah, I think that they probablyinterviewed either the nurse or the Butler and they probably just said like Rosebudwas his final word. That seems like an invasion of privacy, but clearlythey don't really care about that. Okay, listen, these reporters practice awful journalism. Yeah, we can't take anything that they're doing as an example ofhow to act. So then this group of journalist decide that they're going togo out and talk to anyone that Kane knew in his life. So theystart off with Susan Alexander, who is wife number two, and she won'ttalk. She's so distraught. She's just been drinking constantly and really can't formany words. And then this journalist, he tries to get information out ofthe server who's there as well, to see if he has heard her sayanything about rose bud or just anything about Kane in general, and he callshis bossons like no one saying anything. So then his next assignment is togo to Walter P Thatcher's I guess it's it's not a grave or it's kindof a memorial. It's just a big...

...building with his name on it,and it turns out he's dead, when I had thought he would like comeback as a villain or something. I know you would have been so old, I know, but I didn't realize how old. I don't know.I assumed he was the same age as him up until that point. Sothe people there give the journalist Thatcher's manuscript and it has a pretty large sectionit's pages eighty three to one hundred and forty two on all of faster's interactionswith Kane since he met him. So then the scene goes back to onethousand eight hundred and seventy one, when Kane is a little boy, Ithink he's probably like five or six, and Thatcher is talking to Kane's motherabout buying her property. But then I wasn't. Then it seemed like theywere selling Kane himself. And then I was like are they selling both,because it seemed like in the contract he was like yeah, so in thisit says that I'm going to take your child and he can have this moneywhen he's twenty five. It was just very uncomfortable. I think part ofthe deal was that, like obviously Kane grew up poor, his family waspoor. So that was part of the deal, like for Kane to betaken with Thatcher Um as so he wouldn't have to grow up poor, hewould have a lot of money. She says to him, you're going tobe the richest man I but I didn't think he could. He couldn't accessit until he was older. Yeah, but I think still growing up witha banker like yeah, live a more luxurious life. Well, the waythey were speaking, I thought they were selling the child. After they signedthe paper birds with Thatcher buying the property and buying her child, that'Cher goesout to meet Kane for the first time and he's out there playing in thesnow and he just walks up to him and is like, yeah, I'mgoing to be taking you away on a train and you are just coming withme right now, and that's it. Your Mom's not coming, no one'scoming, you're leaving with me right now. And obviously Kane would be upset bythat. He's a six year old boy. So he just decides totake his sled and hit Thatcher in the chest with it to push him away. He makes about a foot and then they turn them around and they goto leave. Yeah, imagine so man coming to your house buying your mom'sproperty and then all of a sudden he comes outside and your mom's like,well, he just bought you two way. Oh my God, it's like athese are your new owners, like a fan fixed story. Oh,Harry styles is now your new owner. Imagine that's that's exactly that's what thiswhole story is. It's just a thing. That's her. Actually, Harry,styles fourteen year old me would be quaking in your arrowpos cell logoed sweatpaints and jacket, Yep, with my Jonas brothers posters on the wall.So as they were leaving, I was just thinking that is this Snow Asbestos? Because they did that in old films. This asbestos looks like snow and lotsof people got sick from it because they just use asbestos. Yeah,well, okay. Here's the thing. Is that you can't really be surewhat caused these people to be sick, because all they do is smoke cigarettesin this movie. That's also true. I don't know if any of thesepeople died from Messi Theorilyema or Loung lung cancer, but anyway, I wasjust thinking about that because that used to happen all movies, so I wasn'tsure. Also, once they go into the city, he's being paraded aroundby Thatcher and he also got a new sled. Oh Yeah, this moviealso turns out to be a Christmas movie. All three so far I have hadChristmas in every movie's a Christmas movie. You're right, my heart enough.Also, there's this kind of montage of mom tag of faster just talkingabout Kane over and over again, and with each change of the scene,they're only like five seconds long, but with each change of scene Thatcher looksdirectly in the camera and breaks the fourth wall every time. I kind ofthought that was like a funny part of it. I thought it was funnytoo, and he just he kept doing...

...it. Oh, I don't knowif he meant to or if he just kept looking at the camera. I'veyeah, I think it was intentional. Yeah, okay. So then,well, Kane starts his newspaper business. Well, I was going to sayyou kind of cut to a scene where Thatcher is basically saying, like youcan have all of these things that you want, and he goes no,I don't want any of that, I just want this newspaper, this dyingnewspaper that no one really reads. And at that point he like he showshis first headline to that's her, and that's like this isn't true. Thisthere's no evidence that it's about a woman getting killed and it says that shewas murdered and that's like this isn't you can't write this. There's no evidencethat she was murdered. It's just that she was killed and I was like, Oh, so he made his fortune off of yellow journalism. HMM,and everything makes sense. Yes, and for those who don't know what yellowjournalism is, I actually just graduated college where I did study journalism, andso basically yellow journalism is when a publication gets its readers by sensationalizing and exaggeratingstories for a headline and they don't have much reporting to back them up,and so it's basically just a way of creating shocking headlines and shocking material withno real evidence and it's not objective and it is biased, and so kindof throughout this whole film you see kane making these decisions and kind of representingYellow Journalism, and then you also see kind of a parallel with Thompson,the reporter looking for this juicy story that's not really there, and it's kindof ironic because this movie is about how you shouldn't make money that way.And then I think the irony of it is that Kane becomes a victim ofyellow journalism in the end. And there's definitely more things that we can talkabout with yellow journals a little bit later, but then it shows that the newspaperhas been open for probably about a year and a half and Thatcher getsthe first report that he lost a million dollars in the first year, andKane says, well, I don't I don't really care about money. Aslong as this newspaper stays open. I can keep it open for sixty yearswith with the money that I have, even if we lose a million dollarsevery year. Yeah, and you can kind of see that he lives tobother Thatcher. Yeah, probably because he bought him as a child. Yep, and then he also says that if he hadn't been really rich, heprobably could have been a great man. If he has, so I thinkhe kind of blames Thatcher for the way he's become because if he had stayedwith his mother, he could have been a really great man and he wantedto be everything that Thatcher hates, like against capitalism, just living to liveand loving people, which he doesn't really have a capacity to love anyone buthimself, as find out a little bit later. Then we are back withthe journalist and he's going around asking lots of people what rose bud means,and I I wasn't sure, but whenever he asked people about it. Thepeople he asked seemed to be surprised, like almost like they knew what itwas but they didn't want to tell him. At that point he was talking tohis one of his partners, burn steed. Yeah, Burnstein, andhe just seemed like he was like Oh, rose bud kind of like he knewwhat he was talking about but didn't want to tell him. But Iguess no one really did know what Rose Budman in the end, except forKane. Yeah, and Bernstein says that Kan never really wanted money. Hejust he just wanted that newspaper. That's all he wanted, like he saidbefore. And he also said that he should go to see Mr Leland,Jedediah Leland, because they went to school together and was Kane's best friend andkind of his only friend. So before they go to he goes to seeMr Leland. They they show him coming into this new office of the TheNew York Choir, the paper that he bought, and he walks up tothe office of the I guess he's the editor, the main editor, andhe's like, I'm taking over your office. I'M gonna sleep here until we turnthings around. Because I want this to be a twenty four hour newsoutlet. He also he says to Mr Carter. He says if the headlineis big enough, the news is big enough. And that is not howit works. You can't just I guess maybe for some media outlets that's that'swhat they think will work, but you can't just create your own agenda basedon what you want to be important and you want to sensationalize. Yeah,and that's kind of all that Kane really did, though. He would pushideas that he thought were important. But then they're in Cane's new bedroom officeand they just had I guess probably this...

...was normal in the s, butit was an open flame. It was just gas coming out of a pipewith an open flame. Yeah, that doesn't seem very safe. That seemsso dangerously how I mean, I guess why wouldn't you think to put somethingover that? I have no idea, no wonder there were so many firesand that same scene. He's also talking to burn scene in Leyland and hesays that with all the all the headlines and the constant printing of the newspaper, he's giving people the truth, which I thought seemed kind of ironic becausehe's just kind of making things up that are still up for speculation, whichI think is the one thing that made it seem a little bit better wasthe fact that he put his name on it. Like I'm saying this.It's not. He kind of took responsibility for it. He's pretty transparent,at least about what he owns and his wealth. Yeah, so at thatpoint we are shown a picture of some executives from a rival newspaper, thechronicle, and Caine says that these are the best in the business. Thisis why the chronicle has four Hundredzero in circulation, and he decides that that'swhat he wants weight. That's actually interesting because now, if you look atcirculations of newspapers, like four Hundredzero is really not that much, yeah,but back then it was huge. So he what he decides to do ishe steals all the executives from the chronicle. I wasn't sure if happened all atonce. It it's six years from one that original picture was taken.I'm not sure if he kind of poached them over time or if all ofa sudden, after six years he took all of them, but I'm assumingthat he took them for money, like he offered them money that they couldn'trefuse. Yeah, he probably bought them out. Yeah, and then there'sthis big party that because now all these executives are over at the New Yorkchoir and it's all old white men sitting around this table and now they havea circulation of almost seven hundred thousand. Yeah, it's a huge jump.And at this party a band comes in and then these women dancers come inand all the men, as soon as they walk in, there just catcalling them. And before that happened, the music started playing in the waiterstarted moving so fast and I thought it was going to be like the dancescene from the pooler express, I was thinking when with the hot chocolate.Yeah, at that point also, Kane is dancing with the girls. Andthey also mentioned that there's a war started, and I was like, Oh wait, I remember something from my calm one class where we learned about someonestarting a war with Spain, because they wrote it in the newspaper. Theythey said there was this war that was going to start with Spain, andthat's exactly what Kane did in the story. It was yeah, the Spanish Americanwar was pretty much started. Just buy a new yellow journalism, buya newspaper, just saying that there is something starting, and they that actuallymade it start, because both sides kind of thought, oh what, like, what if there is something? Oh yeah, I do remember learning aboutthat my calm classes. I figured you might know more, but no,I totally forgot about that. It was like this thing that came from theback of my mind. I was like, wow, I actually know something aboutthis, you actually learned something in college. What a concept. Anotherpart of the scene that made me like cringe in side was one Kane wasdancing with the women and one woman in particular, and he tries to grabher and kiss her and she pushes him away. Like think of that.They look happy because they're being paid to look happy and dance, not becausethey want to be there, and I think it kind of represents the ideathat came. Thinks he can buy approval and friendship and love, oh definitely, which kind of becomes a theme throughout the whole movie. HMM, andI think also in this the same like after the dancing they cut to Lelandand he's concerned that the new executives will leave when they get a better offerbecause he said they were completely devoted to the chronicle and their values and theyeasily switch to the inquirer because of money. So I think at some point money'snot going to be able to buy them out because they'll keep asking formore and more and more. You can't buy loyalty. HMM. So thenKane leaves for a while and Leland and burn seen our are running the office. But when he comes back they they've increased their amount of employees. There'sover four hundred employees at the the newspaper and they make this trophy for him. Well, there's also there's a whole room filled with all of the statuesthat he's bought over his travels. Yeah, it's what used to be as hisbedroom office and it's just completely filled to the top of trophies, andnot trophies, statutes. But then he finally walks into the the office andthey go to give him this trophy and...

...he seemed really, really flustered whenhe walked in the room. Yeah, I think it was just the factthat the carriage, or whatever that was, was just waiting outside for him,so he had to skirt skirt real quick and it's just it was kindof annoying because everyone was so excited to see him. They gave he ranback to grab the trophy and then left. That's all just annoying. It wasa weird, weird interaction with him and everyone else. So Burnstein,I guess his little like Minion, was saying that so the person that hemarried, she's the niece of the president. I think. Yeah, she's relatedto the president, but not directly related. Yes, so burnste wassaying that she's going to be the president's wife one day, which really annoyedme because basically he was saying that Kane is going to be president one dayand that's like kind of all she'll ever be, just someone who's related topresidents. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but yeah, definitely.After this scene we're back to the present, I guess, and the journalist Thompson, is meeting with Leland. Now he's really old, and he suggeststhat Rosebud could be something that Kane lost. He like has all these things,but the one thing that he's lost is whatever rose but is. Weeland also says that Kane never really believed in anything, and Leland personally neverbelieved in anything that was said in the inquirer. So Kane was just sayingall these things just to to sensationalize, to get people to support the newspaper, while Leland, being on the inside, really knew that none of this wasever going to be true and there was no reason to believe anything thatthey printed. And it's really important, like what he says about Rosebud beingsomething he's lost. Yeah, Le'll just make a note of that now beforewe get to the ending. So then we see the progression of Kane's marriageto his first wife, emily, the president's distant relative. So she they'resitting across from each other at a table and it keeps moving forward in timeafter a few seconds and at each scene they're talking about how he spends moretime at the newspaper then with her, and also with each transition transition,I noticed her hair gets shorter and shorter and she gets angrier and angrier,and then they also progressively say less and less to each other. And healso kind of at least at the very beginning, he made time for herand then he made excuses for her and then by the end he didn't evenmake excuses for not really being there and she was just completely fed up withhim. Yeah, and the second to last scene of this, she alsolike mentions how she also has a problem with everything that he prints in thenewspaper because she recognizes that it's it's not a hundred percent accurate and really justleaving things up for speculation. And in the last scene they don't even speakat all. They both have their own newspapers and they're sitting at opposite sidesof the table. Exactly. Yes, and as Leland's talking to this journalist, he also mentions that all key you wanted out of life was love andlove from other people. But the problem was was that he couldn't love otherpeople, he only could love himself. So that's why he really didn't payattention to his first wife. He stopped making excuses, he just kind ofignored her, and it's pretty much the same thing that happened with his secondwife. So basically it kind of all goes back to that day where hismom chose money over him basically basically said this money is more important than loved. That moment kind of shaped how he thinks that love works, because hethought that his mom was doing that out of love and so kind of likeyou can buy love. Is Pretty much how he how he thinks the worldworks. Yeah, so then we see how he met his second wife,Susan Alexander. He met her while he was just standing on a street corner. She was laughing at him because she had a toothache. He also somehowgot covered in mud and she offered to let him enter a house to gethim hot water. But also, you're gonna but a stranger covered in mudinto your house. I think they were different times. Yeah, and atfirst he was angry she was laughing at him, but then she was insuch pain because of her toothache that he it's like a moment of real compassionfrom him, kind of. He says, Oh, just laugh at me,because when you were laughing you forgot about this toothache. And he alsoasks her how old she is and she...

...says she's a ripe old age oftwenty two, and I was like, Oh my God, we're ancient.I know I'm turning twenty two in a few weeks and that line scared meto death. Also, this whole scene they were like flirting back and forthwith each other. Neither of them blinked once. Yeah, it kind ofwas really awkward, especially when he was doing the hand puppets or the shadow, the shadow puppet. Yeah, weird. It was so weird. This alsomarks his run for governor and it looks like he's still with his firstwife and earlier at in the movie they mentioned that his political career never tookoff because of an affair, and it's clear that Susan. Is that afair it also turns out that he has a son. This is the onlymention of his son. It never comes back in the film. He's alsorunning against Jim Getty's and as they're leaving this rally that Kane has prepared andand Kane goes up to her and asks her where she's going and she saysI'm going to Blah, blah, Blah this address, and his eyes getwide and she says I'm going to go investgate. Do you want to comealong? And he's like, Oh, yeah, I should, probably should, probably come along for this, come along for the ride. So theyget to the door and when the maid opens it, I'm guessing she doesn'tsee the wife and she immediately says Oh, Mr Kane, and what's up hey, hell, y'all doing? And then, like, his wife makesa face and his like, Yep, yeah, I knew it, andthey walk in and they go up the stairs and Susan comes out and islike Charlie, and then she sees the wife. The same thing that happenedwith the maid, and at the top of the stairs Jim Getty's comes outof the room and it's revealed that he threatened Susan to write this letter toKane's wife about the affair and kind of is what forced him to come,and Susan kind of is playing dumb this whole time. She's like, oh, nothing's happened between us, I don't even know. He just forced meto write this letter. Yeah, and it's also revealed they like start aconversation and getty says that he didn't send this letter just because they're running againsteach other, but because Kane showed getty's in the in his newspaper in aconvict outfit and it kind of it ruined his reputation, not just politically buteven with his family. It really it hurt his children to see that andby running the affair in the newspaper he can also ruin Kane the same waythat he was ruined. And well then his first wife just says, well, they're not going to run it. Of course they're not going to runit, and Kane says, well, no one can tell tell me whatto do, so he says just run it, like I don't care.So the the story is run and it's kind of ruins his political career.And you see the inquiry printing the next newspaper and they have two versions.The first one says Kane wins, but then the second one says fraud atPoles, and I was just like, you can't, you can't say that. Like clearly he lost because of an affair. Like everybody knows about theaffair. You can't say there is fraud at the polls. Yep, thatwould be fake news. But I think it's weird how he pretty much daresJim Getty's to like publish this and he doesn't. He would rather face therepercussions of that then just like I don't understand, like why wouldn't he juststop? Yeah, it's almost as if he wants this to happen. Itwas very weird, like I don't know, maybe it was a way to divorcehis wife. They were gonna she was going to leave him anyway.I feel yeah, I don't know. I I'd seemed like he really wantedto be in politics, so why would you? I don't know. Hecould have had another chance if they didn't run the story. Oh wait,also, I think maybe the reason why we don't see junior again. Ithink he dies. He dies. I think he and the first way todie. Yeah, both mother and Son Perish in a car accident shortly afterEmily Leaves Charles. That's why we never see him again. Where was that? I don't remember that. That was at the beginning. In that Newsreelof his life, basically says that his wife left him and then she diedlike a week later because of a car accident with the sun in the cartoo. Are we supposed to speculate that he caused it up? Well,I wrote it down because I was like...

...maybe this will come up later,but it never did. I don't think he had anything to do with it. It's kind of like, I don't know, maybe I'm just used toviolence and movies, but you expect like there to be some sort of shockingthing happening, like yeah, no, that that's exactly what I expected toand maybe that's the subtleties of what makes this movie great. Yeah, maybewe're so used to scandalizing everything. Yeah, that it's it's sometimes just that simple. So the next thing they're back at the inquirer and Leland is talkingto Kane and says that he acts like he owns the people and he expectsthem to kind of do whatever he wants, like they would still elect him governoreven though this happened, and I guess that's why they had that storyabout fraud, and I think he's using like his ownership over the newspaper tokind of once again by the affection of people. Yeah, yeah, andI also was thinking like Leland is the only person who's really honest with Kaneabout what he's doing and why you shouldn't be doing it, and I wassurprised that king kept him around for so long because he usually shuts down everyoneelse who who talks to him and says, well, you shouldn't be printing this, like his wife. He completely shut her down. But right.And the next few seconds Leland says he wants to leave, he wants togo to Chicago. He doesn't want to be in the same newspaper that heis, that that Kane is right now. HM, well, I think so. Leland grew up without money, right, so he kind of he'sreally only interested in being friends with Kane like out of of pure loyalty.Yeah, he was the only one that was truly loyal to him and notlooking for any money. And so when Kane like constantly disappoints him, Iguess he finally got fed up with him and wanted to be out. Thisis also when Leland starts to drink and this whole interaction that he has withKane he's drunk for it, which is it comes up later. And sonow he marries Susan. Yes, once he married Susan, he it's likeright after their wedding, they're walking out of it's either Church or Court House, and they get into this car and he's like, I love her singing. If, if she sings opera, I'm going to buy her an operahouse. And he buys her an Opera House. And it was mentioned earlier, but he spent like three million dollars on this this building, and itshows her getting ready to perform at this Opera House and she also looks soflustered, like she doesn't look happy to be there. It was also kindof funny because like Susan's like when they first meet she really likes him because, like he makes her laugh right, but then they start talking and she'slike Oh, yeah, I like to sing, yeah, I'll play youa song. And then he marries her. He's like we're going to make youa star, like here's this Opera House, like did I get youthe best lessons? Ever, like he does. He goes from zero toone hundred real yeah, really does everything. But after this performance it seems likeit's years later, not like a lot of years, maybe like twoor three years later. But Leland and Kane haven't been speaking since he left. He went to Chicago, but now he's back and it's the same night, or maybe the night after the opera performance. But Kane goes into theoffice and he goes to talk to Leland and he finds him passed out ata typewriter because he was drinking. And Burnstein, who is with Kan,goes to read what he was writing and it's a review about how terrible hiswife was at the opera. Cane takes the review like at first he's mad, but then he takes the review and goes to finish it himself, whichLeland finds out when he wakes up. He doesn't change it at all.He just continues writing the batter view, which, once Leland comes out totalk to Kane, Kane fires him right away and we cut back to oldLeland and he says that the reason that can published that same review and didn'tchange it out as at all was to kind of prove to Leland that hewas an honest man. That's doesn't that's not how it this works. Yeah, you can't just write a bad review of your wife that you don't eventhink is true and then say, Oh, yeah, we're honest. Yeah,live about anything here. At this point where about to leave Leland andLeland says. He says that there was a room where that nurses used tobe pretty, and it's not true then and it's not true now. He'sjust like bashing these nurses who are taking care of they're just standing there rightnext to him. Yeah, it's awful. The next movie that we need towatch needs to be strong female lead movie. We should find the moviethat's passes the backtal test. You know...

...what that is? No, it'sa test where you see, if a movie has two female characters that havescreen time for more than five minutes where they talk about something other than aman, who we will and most movies don't pass it. Well, Iknow that none of the movies we've watched so far have passed that test.Yeah, most of these movies don't have women that talk to each other.Okay, well, next movie, strong female lead will see. I wantsomething empowering. So then we go and the journalist is now talking to Susanand she brings up the fact that Kane didn't bring up marriage to her untilafter he had lost the election. So he kind of is like he lostsomething and to gain it back he could gain it back through marriage. Butthroughout their entire marriage he he kind of guides everything to how exactly he wantsit to be. He doesn't give her any input in anything at all.Then they go to her first singing lesson and the voice teacher says like shecan't sing, she's terrible and she didn't sound that bad to me. Yeah, I can't hit that note. So why are people so meant to herit just she just needed practice to reach those notes. That I don't know. It just confused me. Like she wasn't bad. Yeah, I don'tknow how she's impossible to teach, like, obviously her range is pretty nice.Yeah, and then like after Kane walks in and has her start again, she she reaches those notes, which I don't know. I was like, why do people keep making fun of her? Couldn't they've gotten someone who'smore meet you, okre yeah, couldn't they gotten a terrible singer? AndKane's just like you just have to keep teaching her, and I agree.I don't think she's bad. But then it's another scene at the opera.Is the same performance but it's zoomed in on Kane this time and he hearsa woman laughing during her performance and saying how bad it is. It's likewow, that's like clearly her husband sitting right next to you. But Ithink that people are saying that her singings good but her acting is awful,which, yeah, you can see that her I think, sucks. Butthen they get reviews and in the reviews it says that, shoot, hersinging was bad and that, and she's surrounded by all these newspapers on thefloor and she's just crying and screaming and she says to Kane that she hadnever wanted to sing in the first place, like she's like, why did youmake me do this, because now they're all saying that I'm bad.Yeah, she like just casually brought up the fact that she likes to sing. But then, even after she gets all these bad reviews and she's like, I never wanted to sing the first place. He tells her that shehas to keep going and she goes on a tour of the country and Iwas so I did notice, like it does, another newspaper real and itseemed like only positive reviews from all the other all the other newspapers. Butyeah, but all the other new they were all in the choir newspapers.So after all these tours are this tour of the country, we see Susanlying in bed and there's a medicine bottle next to her and Kane comes inand then he gets a doctor and he kind of just says, Oh,I guess she drank too many or too much of this bottle of sedatives thatthe doctor gave her to help because she's stressed about the tour, but shetried to kill herself because she couldn't bear to tell Kane that she didn't wantto sing anymore, that she was that this was never what she wanted todo. Like why, why would you make me do this? I feltlike I couldn't tell you that I didn't want to, so my only wayout was this. Well, she does tell him so many times and Ithink that she her words mean nothing to him. He just yeah, it'sin one ear out the other. But I think this action really proved thatshe wasn't just complaining or whining. She that's not what she wanted to do. She had liked him for who he was, not for what he coulddo for her. And then, finally, Kane says that she won't have tofight to prove her worth to the world anymore, because why would anyonehave to in the first place? Yeah, and then it's shown that he,that Kane Built Zana new for Susan, and she says to him like nowyou're shown this house and it's massive,...

...and she says him like I'm solonely. This house is so big. We had people here last week andI don't even know if they're still here. This aufice so big.So when he use, when she was talking to him and kind of complainingabout how lonely she is, he's like standing near the fireplace. The fireplaceis so big, it's and so like extreme that he looks like a tinyhuman and it was really funny. But while she's like all she does issit in front of this giant fireplace and does equally giant Jig saw puzzles eachof them, Jake saw puzzle to kind of shows the passing of time andhow boring it is. That's how I feel in quarantine now. It's likeday sixty two. Yeah, and or she asks Kane to go to NewYork, like why don't we go back to New York, where where yournewspapers are? Like, why don't we go back? There's things to dothere, and he says no, I don't want to go, we're goingto stay and that's that. So Kane recognizes that she's so upset after many, many times of her telling him, finally and he throws a picnic andinvites a bunch of people and everyone is outside, but Kane and Susan arein a tent and she accuses Kane of treating her like one of his statueswhere he just throws money at her to get her to stay, and hesays that he loves her, but she says to him like no, youdon't love me, you only want me to love you and that's why youyou do all these things, not to show you love me, it's soyou can feel love for me. And then he just slaps her. Yeah, yeah, that was I don't know why every movie we've watched so farhas violence towards women in it. Yeah, everyone so far. I know we'veonly done three, but like it's teaching people that that's okay. Butalso, before the picnic ends, where right after he slaps her, there'sa woman screaming outside. I think it was kind of symbolism almost for howshe she was feeling on the inside, because she was like completely done,but on the inside she's screaming like I need to get out of this unhappysituation. Yeah, and then she does. She packs her bags and and saysshe's going to leave, and the line that makes her leave is,well, basically he tells her lies and she looks like she's about to stay, she's about to take the bait and he goes, you can't do thisto me, meaning that this is all about him, this is always beenabout him all along. Yeah, she's like see Ya, and then itcuts back to Susan in the present. She's much older now and she's finallytelling her story to the journalist, and that's where this this is coming from. And she says to the journalist that he should talk to Raymond, whowas the Butler of Sanna. Do that. The journalist Travel Susanna Dow and Raymondsays that he'll talk about rose bud, but what's it worth to him?And he's like maybe a thousand dollars, and he says that Kane acted crazysometimes. And then there's this transition back into the past. But whatthey're they're showing is kane acting crazy, like this is right when she leaveshim and he closes her suitcase and then just throws it across the room andthen picks up another suitcase and tosses it and then he just goes around andsmashes apart the whole room, ripping things off the walls. He goes tobreak things on this the small little table, but he stops and picks up asnow globe with a little tiny house inside of it and he shakes itand the snow falls and it's just like that, one of the very firstscenes of the movie. So this snow clothes kind of resembles the boarding housethat his mom owned and I think that it kind of reminds him of hispast. Yeah, that's why he keeps it this whole time. So thenwe are cutting to present day and they're packing up all of these statues andand everything that's in there, like some of its junk. He collected junk, he collected valuable statues and he collected everything, and the journalist is justkind of talking about canes life and he's kind of come to the conclusion thatmaybe rose but didn't mean anything but his whole that the journalists whole time itjust been like a Jig saw puzzle because he's trying to put these pieces ofcanes life together that don't necessarily make sense, that they maybe they do fit together, maybe they don't, but you have to figure it out on theright way. And then journalist also mentions that maybe Rosebud is something that helost and could never get back, and that's that's kind of where I whatI was thinking about most of the movie,...

...like rose. But is that likethat's why he kept buying these things? Because he had he had lost somethingin his childhood, like he lost the love of his mother, helost his innocence because he was taken away to live with this banker when hewas so young, and it was easier to collect things and have that tryand fill a hole in his heart then to address it and figure out whyhe felt like he couldn't love people. I think he kind of realizes thatlove is pretty much the only thing you can't buy. That's the only thinghe doesn't have yet and he spends his whole life trying to look for itand searching for in different people. And he doesn't know how love because hismom like gave him away for money, and he also because he thinks thatmoney's the only way to like kind of get someone's approval or their loyalty.He doesn't have anything to give someone else besides material items. So as thefilm and they're kind of panting over all the stuff packed up in boxes andthe Butler saying, let's get rid of all this junk, and they pickup the sled and then they go to this giant furnace and you see itbeing tossed in and it zooms into it and it says Rosebud and as it'skind of burning, that's like it's like burning the paint off of our andthe barnish off of it first, but the only thing that's left when thathappens is the word Rosebud. And then it ends. It's like a shotof outside of the house in this black, black smoke coming up from the chimneyand it zooms in on the no trespassing sign and then that's the endof the movie. HMM. What are your concluding thoughts on that? Ireally liked it. I think it it made me think a lot and,like we've said, we I expected like once like that first thing happened,I expected there to be violence. I expected like there to be something sinistergoing on, and it's just this was his life, like this is thisis why he is the way he is. It was kind of that question thatthey were looking to answer at the beginning with the journalists, like notwhat he does but why he does it. And I feel like it and answerthat and I thought it was really good. Thoughts. Oh, yes, I like movies that you can watch like you're reading a book. Likewhen you're reading a book, you look for symbolism and themes and, Um, that's why I kind of appreciate this movie, because there's a lot ofthat and you kind of have to put two and two together to figure out, like, what some symbols mean, and I like how the sled wasa symbol of his lost love and his lost innocence. Yeah, and II appreciate the subtlety of of everything. Yeah, are we glad that we'veseen it now? Yeah, no, I'm this is my favorite one sofar. Definitely same, but next, next we should watch a movie withstrong female characters, that is true. We definitely need that. I feellike that I'll be hard to find in like classic movies, but I'm surethere's one out there. All right. Well, thanks for listening. Thatis the end of our discussion on citizen Kane. Hopefully we have a strongfemale presence in the next one, but that's all for now. Yes,so, if you would like to follow us on social media, our instagramis how have we never podcast and our facebook is how have we never seenthis before, and make sure to send US suggestions and movies to watch andalso play along with our guests. The movie of the week to get ashadow at the beginning of the episode. All right, bye, bye.Hey, congratulations, you've made it to the end of our podcast. Wehope you enjoyed listening. How have we never seen this before? Is producedby is B barone. The music is by Scott Holmes. The podcast artis by Michael Beaumont over at monitor comics, and our social media is run byLauren Cola. Thanks for listening.

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