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How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 1, Episode 3 · 1 year ago

Citizen Kane: “What About Rosebud?”

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In Episode 3, Isabel and Lauren discuss, what is considered to be, one of the greatest movies of all time, the 1941 drama Citizen Kane, directed by Orson Welles.

Join us as we talk about breaking the fourth wall, how this movie is actually a fanfic and how frustrating it's been watching women get treated so poorly in the last three movies. 

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art! 

Thanks for listening!

Hi Everyone, and welcome to how have we never seen this before? This is a podcast where two best friends discuss iconic movies that, well, neither of us, I've ever seen before. I'm is well and I'm Lauren, and this is how have we never seen this before? Hope you enjoy. Shout out to Clarissa, her instagram is at underscore Hu and stagram underscore, for being the first person to guess that we are discussing citizen Kane this week. If you would like a shoutout in the next episode of how we never seen this before, head over to our instagram and be on the lookout for clues on our instagram stories each week. All right, let's get into it. Hi Everyone, and welcome to another episode of how have we never seen this before? This week we watched citizen Kane. So last week I said I knew absolutely nothing about the Godfather, and this week I know less than nothing about citizen Kane. Same okay, so I pretty much always thought it was going to be a movie where some sort of crime happens and a detective has to solve it. I don't know why I thought that, but I did. I literally didn't think anything of it. But all I knew was that one time Jenna marbles went to watch it and she didn't like it and she kept falling asleep. Wow, that's that's literally the only thing I knew. Also, when I went to find somewhere to watch the movie, one of the links I clicked was like Rosebud is his sled. I didn't know what that meant, but I just figured it was something and then moved on from it. They gave away the ending in the link to the movie. Yeah, but I don't know, it didn't really like. I didn't mean anything. I mean I guess it kind of ruined it, but I didn't think anything of it. So as the movie begins, it's just as you're zooming in on this giant mansion and you're progressively getting closer and closer. For the first two minutes of the movie you see monkeys in a cage out front and you're just zooming in closer and closer. So I thought the palace that is zooming in on looks a lot like the castle from the wizard of Oz, though the wicked witch lives in. I don't with the monkeys to on the outside. I just wasn't sure what was going to happen. Did the wizard of boss come out around the same time? That was the s right. I heard no idea wizard of Oz was color, but not many movies were in color anyway, even when that came out. Yeah, so then it starts to snow and we move into the snow globe scene where there's a man lying onlike one of those therapist couches and it zooms in onto the snow globe he has in his hand and then he whispers rose bud and then it drops to the ground and you assume he's dead and immediately I was well, first I was surprised at the Snow Globe didn't break at all. It just kind of rolled and then immediately a nurse comes in a second after he dies and I thought maybe she killed him. Maybe we were just used to witnessing violence through watching these films, but I thought this scene would be a lot more sinister than it actually was. I don't know, I just thought someone had killed him. I there was no promise to had he died, like did he just die of natural causes? Like why did he die? There wasn't anything about that. I guess that's the point, though. That everyone's looking for a reason to scandalize his death, but in reality it's it wasn't anything. Yeah, so then they have that same newspaper effect like they did in the line and the the headline said that Xanadu's landlord is dead, and I was comfusely didn't say the man's name yet and I was like a Zanna do, a person is Zanna to a place and then it turns out it's a place. There's there's actually to one is like the original one is a pleasure palace, and this man built another one for just for himself and it has enough stuff in it for ten museums and there's also tons of animals and it's they say it's the the largest private zoo in the world. I actually have I have a fun fact about that. Okay, so basically this movie is kind of based off of another kind of magazine tycoon. Yeah, William Randolph Hurst, if you know of him, and he also had a huge zoo outside of his house, and so it's kind of showing that this movie is kind of about him, but not really. Yeah, now I will get to that later because I wrote a lot about that. But I also in one of the Amazon. I run it on Amazon and they have little hints about the movie and that was one of the things that they said, that it was clearly based on hearst and he also refused to have anything about...

...the movie published in his magazines because he was so upset by it. So then we found out it's set in one thousand nine hundred and forty one. It's not that important to the time Freme, I don't think, but I just wasn't sure when it was set, and we see the large funeral for him and we also find out that it's Charles Foster Kane, who equals Z and and Dow's landlord, and it makes sense that he's a really big deal because they do this newspaper effect again and it's in every language. There's Chinese, there's French, several English newspapers, and then they explain that he's a newspaper tycoon. He owns thirty seven newspapers, radio stations, grocery stores and a list of other things, and I was just thinking, isn't this illegal? You can't have monopolies in everything like that, and I wasn't sure if that's started after one thousand hundred and forty or if that was always a thing. Like monopolies are illegal and you know, I know nothing, but I do know that a lot of media conglomer its own a lot of things like. Yeah, think about Time Warner. That's why it was a big deal when Disney was trying to buy twenty century Fox. There was a big problem with that because they thought Disney's becoming a huge monopoly in the business and you can't have that. Yeah, well, I don't know, it's not like his magazines were the or his newspapers were the only ones. Like obviously they had competition and that was part of the story, but that was like at the beginning. He bought out that's a bit later he bought out another newspaper, like all of their head people. So towards the middle of his life maybe. I'm not really sure, but after you find out he's dead. They I was kind of confused on the timeline because it did jump around a lot. You could tell when Kane was older or younger, but it was a little bit hard with the other characters sometimes. But then we meet Walter p Thatcher, who, when I saw him, the way he was talking, I assumed he didn't like cane at all and thought maybe he's the one who killed him, because I still wasn't sure that he had died of natural causes. HMM. And he also called him a Communist. Someone else caught him a fascist. Yeah, it was a lot of a lot of words being thrown and then, well, I think that it's funny that what we've discussed so far, like a lot of the situations, a lot of the name calling that happens back then can be applied today. Yeah, I think is funny. Yeah, it's been eighty years and nothing's changed. They also talked about how, when he owned his newspapers, he took a lot of stands on issues most of the time, which you can probably say more, but I it's not really a part of journals anymore. You try to remain neutral and give all the facts, but also you should be aware of your biases when you're writing, but you can't just only say one side of the story like people do. But we'll get into that when we talk about yellow journalism. And they also say that he was married twice. He had tried to get into political office as well, but he never could. They also explain that some of his newspapers closed or merged during the Great Depression, and I don't know what my note says there. Oh, he didn't think there would be a war, right, he said he didn't. He had talked to all of these connections in France and Italy and Germany and he said that they were too smart to start a war. And then we find out that that whole thing was just a newsreel about Charles Knes is death. And the journalists in the room who had just finished broadcasting this, they said, well, that was great, but it only tells us what he did, not why he did it. So they decided that they want to try and figure out, figure out more about him, and they decide to start on his final words, or final word, which is Rosebud. The only thing I didn't under to know was how does everybody know that that was his final word? Yeah, I think that they probably interviewed either the nurse or the Butler and they probably just said like Rosebud was his final word. That seems like an invasion of privacy, but clearly they don't really care about that. Okay, listen, these reporters practice awful journalism. Yeah, we can't take anything that they're doing as an example of how to act. So then this group of journalist decide that they're going to go out and talk to anyone that Kane knew in his life. So they start off with Susan Alexander, who is wife number two, and she won't talk. She's so distraught. She's just been drinking constantly and really can't form any words. And then this journalist, he tries to get information out of the server who's there as well, to see if he has heard her say anything about rose bud or just anything about Kane in general, and he calls his bossons like no one saying anything. So then his next assignment is to go to Walter P Thatcher's I guess it's it's not a grave or it's kind of a memorial. It's just a big...

...building with his name on it, and it turns out he's dead, when I had thought he would like come back as a villain or something. I know you would have been so old, I know, but I didn't realize how old. I don't know. I assumed he was the same age as him up until that point. So the people there give the journalist Thatcher's manuscript and it has a pretty large section it's pages eighty three to one hundred and forty two on all of faster's interactions with Kane since he met him. So then the scene goes back to one thousand eight hundred and seventy one, when Kane is a little boy, I think he's probably like five or six, and Thatcher is talking to Kane's mother about buying her property. But then I wasn't. Then it seemed like they were selling Kane himself. And then I was like are they selling both, because it seemed like in the contract he was like yeah, so in this it says that I'm going to take your child and he can have this money when he's twenty five. It was just very uncomfortable. I think part of the deal was that, like obviously Kane grew up poor, his family was poor. So that was part of the deal, like for Kane to be taken with Thatcher Um as so he wouldn't have to grow up poor, he would have a lot of money. She says to him, you're going to be the richest man I but I didn't think he could. He couldn't access it until he was older. Yeah, but I think still growing up with a banker like yeah, live a more luxurious life. Well, the way they were speaking, I thought they were selling the child. After they signed the paper birds with Thatcher buying the property and buying her child, that'Cher goes out to meet Kane for the first time and he's out there playing in the snow and he just walks up to him and is like, yeah, I'm going to be taking you away on a train and you are just coming with me right now, and that's it. Your Mom's not coming, no one's coming, you're leaving with me right now. And obviously Kane would be upset by that. He's a six year old boy. So he just decides to take his sled and hit Thatcher in the chest with it to push him away. He makes about a foot and then they turn them around and they go to leave. Yeah, imagine so man coming to your house buying your mom's property and then all of a sudden he comes outside and your mom's like, well, he just bought you two way. Oh my God, it's like a these are your new owners, like a fan fixed story. Oh, Harry styles is now your new owner. Imagine that's that's exactly that's what this whole story is. It's just a thing. That's her. Actually, Harry, styles fourteen year old me would be quaking in your arrowpos cell logoed sweat paints and jacket, Yep, with my Jonas brothers posters on the wall. So as they were leaving, I was just thinking that is this Snow Asbestos? Because they did that in old films. This asbestos looks like snow and lots of people got sick from it because they just use asbestos. Yeah, well, okay. Here's the thing. Is that you can't really be sure what caused these people to be sick, because all they do is smoke cigarettes in this movie. That's also true. I don't know if any of these people died from Messi Theorilyema or Loung lung cancer, but anyway, I was just thinking about that because that used to happen all movies, so I wasn't sure. Also, once they go into the city, he's being paraded around by Thatcher and he also got a new sled. Oh Yeah, this movie also turns out to be a Christmas movie. All three so far I have had Christmas in every movie's a Christmas movie. You're right, my heart enough. Also, there's this kind of montage of mom tag of faster just talking about Kane over and over again, and with each change of the scene, they're only like five seconds long, but with each change of scene Thatcher looks directly in the camera and breaks the fourth wall every time. I kind of thought that was like a funny part of it. I thought it was funny too, and he just he kept doing...

...it. Oh, I don't know if he meant to or if he just kept looking at the camera. I've yeah, I think it was intentional. Yeah, okay. So then, well, Kane starts his newspaper business. Well, I was going to say you kind of cut to a scene where Thatcher is basically saying, like you can have all of these things that you want, and he goes no, I don't want any of that, I just want this newspaper, this dying newspaper that no one really reads. And at that point he like he shows his first headline to that's her, and that's like this isn't true. This there's no evidence that it's about a woman getting killed and it says that she was murdered and that's like this isn't you can't write this. There's no evidence that she was murdered. It's just that she was killed and I was like, Oh, so he made his fortune off of yellow journalism. HMM, and everything makes sense. Yes, and for those who don't know what yellow journalism is, I actually just graduated college where I did study journalism, and so basically yellow journalism is when a publication gets its readers by sensationalizing and exaggerating stories for a headline and they don't have much reporting to back them up, and so it's basically just a way of creating shocking headlines and shocking material with no real evidence and it's not objective and it is biased, and so kind of throughout this whole film you see kane making these decisions and kind of representing Yellow Journalism, and then you also see kind of a parallel with Thompson, the reporter looking for this juicy story that's not really there, and it's kind of ironic because this movie is about how you shouldn't make money that way. And then I think the irony of it is that Kane becomes a victim of yellow journalism in the end. And there's definitely more things that we can talk about with yellow journals a little bit later, but then it shows that the newspaper has been open for probably about a year and a half and Thatcher gets the first report that he lost a million dollars in the first year, and Kane says, well, I don't I don't really care about money. As long as this newspaper stays open. I can keep it open for sixty years with with the money that I have, even if we lose a million dollars every year. Yeah, and you can kind of see that he lives to bother Thatcher. Yeah, probably because he bought him as a child. Yep, and then he also says that if he hadn't been really rich, he probably could have been a great man. If he has, so I think he kind of blames Thatcher for the way he's become because if he had stayed with his mother, he could have been a really great man and he wanted to be everything that Thatcher hates, like against capitalism, just living to live and loving people, which he doesn't really have a capacity to love anyone but himself, as find out a little bit later. Then we are back with the journalist and he's going around asking lots of people what rose bud means, and I I wasn't sure, but whenever he asked people about it. The people he asked seemed to be surprised, like almost like they knew what it was but they didn't want to tell him. At that point he was talking to his one of his partners, burn steed. Yeah, Burnstein, and he just seemed like he was like Oh, rose bud kind of like he knew what he was talking about but didn't want to tell him. But I guess no one really did know what Rose Budman in the end, except for Kane. Yeah, and Bernstein says that Kan never really wanted money. He just he just wanted that newspaper. That's all he wanted, like he said before. And he also said that he should go to see Mr Leland, Jedediah Leland, because they went to school together and was Kane's best friend and kind of his only friend. So before they go to he goes to see Mr Leland. They they show him coming into this new office of the The New York Choir, the paper that he bought, and he walks up to the office of the I guess he's the editor, the main editor, and he's like, I'm taking over your office. I'M gonna sleep here until we turn things around. Because I want this to be a twenty four hour news outlet. He also he says to Mr Carter. He says if the headline is big enough, the news is big enough. And that is not how it works. You can't just I guess maybe for some media outlets that's that's what they think will work, but you can't just create your own agenda based on what you want to be important and you want to sensationalize. Yeah, and that's kind of all that Kane really did, though. He would push ideas that he thought were important. But then they're in Cane's new bedroom office and they just had I guess probably this...

...was normal in the s, but it was an open flame. It was just gas coming out of a pipe with an open flame. Yeah, that doesn't seem very safe. That seems so dangerously how I mean, I guess why wouldn't you think to put something over that? I have no idea, no wonder there were so many fires and that same scene. He's also talking to burn scene in Leyland and he says that with all the all the headlines and the constant printing of the newspaper, he's giving people the truth, which I thought seemed kind of ironic because he's just kind of making things up that are still up for speculation, which I think is the one thing that made it seem a little bit better was the fact that he put his name on it. Like I'm saying this. It's not. He kind of took responsibility for it. He's pretty transparent, at least about what he owns and his wealth. Yeah, so at that point we are shown a picture of some executives from a rival newspaper, the chronicle, and Caine says that these are the best in the business. This is why the chronicle has four Hundredzero in circulation, and he decides that that's what he wants weight. That's actually interesting because now, if you look at circulations of newspapers, like four Hundredzero is really not that much, yeah, but back then it was huge. So he what he decides to do is he steals all the executives from the chronicle. I wasn't sure if happened all at once. It it's six years from one that original picture was taken. I'm not sure if he kind of poached them over time or if all of a sudden, after six years he took all of them, but I'm assuming that he took them for money, like he offered them money that they couldn't refuse. Yeah, he probably bought them out. Yeah, and then there's this big party that because now all these executives are over at the New York choir and it's all old white men sitting around this table and now they have a circulation of almost seven hundred thousand. Yeah, it's a huge jump. And at this party a band comes in and then these women dancers come in and all the men, as soon as they walk in, there just cat calling them. And before that happened, the music started playing in the waiter started moving so fast and I thought it was going to be like the dance scene from the pooler express, I was thinking when with the hot chocolate. Yeah, at that point also, Kane is dancing with the girls. And they also mentioned that there's a war started, and I was like, Oh wait, I remember something from my calm one class where we learned about someone starting a war with Spain, because they wrote it in the newspaper. They they said there was this war that was going to start with Spain, and that's exactly what Kane did in the story. It was yeah, the Spanish American war was pretty much started. Just buy a new yellow journalism, buy a newspaper, just saying that there is something starting, and they that actually made it start, because both sides kind of thought, oh what, like, what if there is something? Oh yeah, I do remember learning about that my calm classes. I figured you might know more, but no, I totally forgot about that. It was like this thing that came from the back of my mind. I was like, wow, I actually know something about this, you actually learned something in college. What a concept. Another part of the scene that made me like cringe in side was one Kane was dancing with the women and one woman in particular, and he tries to grab her and kiss her and she pushes him away. Like think of that. They look happy because they're being paid to look happy and dance, not because they want to be there, and I think it kind of represents the idea that came. Thinks he can buy approval and friendship and love, oh definitely, which kind of becomes a theme throughout the whole movie. HMM, and I think also in this the same like after the dancing they cut to Leland and he's concerned that the new executives will leave when they get a better offer because he said they were completely devoted to the chronicle and their values and they easily switch to the inquirer because of money. So I think at some point money's not going to be able to buy them out because they'll keep asking for more and more and more. You can't buy loyalty. HMM. So then Kane leaves for a while and Leland and burn seen our are running the office. But when he comes back they they've increased their amount of employees. There's over four hundred employees at the the newspaper and they make this trophy for him. Well, there's also there's a whole room filled with all of the statues that he's bought over his travels. Yeah, it's what used to be as his bedroom office and it's just completely filled to the top of trophies, and not trophies, statutes. But then he finally walks into the the office and they go to give him this trophy and...

...he seemed really, really flustered when he walked in the room. Yeah, I think it was just the fact that the carriage, or whatever that was, was just waiting outside for him, so he had to skirt skirt real quick and it's just it was kind of annoying because everyone was so excited to see him. They gave he ran back to grab the trophy and then left. That's all just annoying. It was a weird, weird interaction with him and everyone else. So Burnstein, I guess his little like Minion, was saying that so the person that he married, she's the niece of the president. I think. Yeah, she's related to the president, but not directly related. Yes, so burnste was saying that she's going to be the president's wife one day, which really annoyed me because basically he was saying that Kane is going to be president one day and that's like kind of all she'll ever be, just someone who's related to presidents. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but yeah, definitely. After this scene we're back to the present, I guess, and the journalist Thompson, is meeting with Leland. Now he's really old, and he suggests that Rosebud could be something that Kane lost. He like has all these things, but the one thing that he's lost is whatever rose but is. We eland also says that Kane never really believed in anything, and Leland personally never believed in anything that was said in the inquirer. So Kane was just saying all these things just to to sensationalize, to get people to support the newspaper, while Leland, being on the inside, really knew that none of this was ever going to be true and there was no reason to believe anything that they printed. And it's really important, like what he says about Rosebud being something he's lost. Yeah, Le'll just make a note of that now before we get to the ending. So then we see the progression of Kane's marriage to his first wife, emily, the president's distant relative. So she they're sitting across from each other at a table and it keeps moving forward in time after a few seconds and at each scene they're talking about how he spends more time at the newspaper then with her, and also with each transition transition, I noticed her hair gets shorter and shorter and she gets angrier and angrier, and then they also progressively say less and less to each other. And he also kind of at least at the very beginning, he made time for her and then he made excuses for her and then by the end he didn't even make excuses for not really being there and she was just completely fed up with him. Yeah, and the second to last scene of this, she also like mentions how she also has a problem with everything that he prints in the newspaper because she recognizes that it's it's not a hundred percent accurate and really just leaving things up for speculation. And in the last scene they don't even speak at all. They both have their own newspapers and they're sitting at opposite sides of the table. Exactly. Yes, and as Leland's talking to this journalist, he also mentions that all key you wanted out of life was love and love from other people. But the problem was was that he couldn't love other people, he only could love himself. So that's why he really didn't pay attention to his first wife. He stopped making excuses, he just kind of ignored her, and it's pretty much the same thing that happened with his second wife. So basically it kind of all goes back to that day where his mom chose money over him basically basically said this money is more important than loved. That moment kind of shaped how he thinks that love works, because he thought that his mom was doing that out of love and so kind of like you can buy love. Is Pretty much how he how he thinks the world works. Yeah, so then we see how he met his second wife, Susan Alexander. He met her while he was just standing on a street corner. She was laughing at him because she had a toothache. He also somehow got covered in mud and she offered to let him enter a house to get him hot water. But also, you're gonna but a stranger covered in mud into your house. I think they were different times. Yeah, and at first he was angry she was laughing at him, but then she was in such pain because of her toothache that he it's like a moment of real compassion from him, kind of. He says, Oh, just laugh at me, because when you were laughing you forgot about this toothache. And he also asks her how old she is and she...

...says she's a ripe old age of twenty two, and I was like, Oh my God, we're ancient. I know I'm turning twenty two in a few weeks and that line scared me to death. Also, this whole scene they were like flirting back and forth with each other. Neither of them blinked once. Yeah, it kind of was really awkward, especially when he was doing the hand puppets or the shadow, the shadow puppet. Yeah, weird. It was so weird. This also marks his run for governor and it looks like he's still with his first wife and earlier at in the movie they mentioned that his political career never took off because of an affair, and it's clear that Susan. Is that a fair it also turns out that he has a son. This is the only mention of his son. It never comes back in the film. He's also running against Jim Getty's and as they're leaving this rally that Kane has prepared and and Kane goes up to her and asks her where she's going and she says I'm going to Blah, blah, Blah this address, and his eyes get wide and she says I'm going to go investgate. Do you want to come along? And he's like, Oh, yeah, I should, probably should, probably come along for this, come along for the ride. So they get to the door and when the maid opens it, I'm guessing she doesn't see the wife and she immediately says Oh, Mr Kane, and what's up hey, hell, y'all doing? And then, like, his wife makes a face and his like, Yep, yeah, I knew it, and they walk in and they go up the stairs and Susan comes out and is like Charlie, and then she sees the wife. The same thing that happened with the maid, and at the top of the stairs Jim Getty's comes out of the room and it's revealed that he threatened Susan to write this letter to Kane's wife about the affair and kind of is what forced him to come, and Susan kind of is playing dumb this whole time. She's like, oh, nothing's happened between us, I don't even know. He just forced me to write this letter. Yeah, and it's also revealed they like start a conversation and getty says that he didn't send this letter just because they're running against each other, but because Kane showed getty's in the in his newspaper in a convict outfit and it kind of it ruined his reputation, not just politically but even with his family. It really it hurt his children to see that and by running the affair in the newspaper he can also ruin Kane the same way that he was ruined. And well then his first wife just says, well, they're not going to run it. Of course they're not going to run it, and Kane says, well, no one can tell tell me what to do, so he says just run it, like I don't care. So the the story is run and it's kind of ruins his political career. And you see the inquiry printing the next newspaper and they have two versions. The first one says Kane wins, but then the second one says fraud at Poles, and I was just like, you can't, you can't say that. Like clearly he lost because of an affair. Like everybody knows about the affair. You can't say there is fraud at the polls. Yep, that would be fake news. But I think it's weird how he pretty much dares Jim Getty's to like publish this and he doesn't. He would rather face the repercussions of that then just like I don't understand, like why wouldn't he just stop? Yeah, it's almost as if he wants this to happen. It was very weird, like I don't know, maybe it was a way to divorce his wife. They were gonna she was going to leave him anyway. I feel yeah, I don't know. I I'd seemed like he really wanted to be in politics, so why would you? I don't know. He could have had another chance if they didn't run the story. Oh wait, also, I think maybe the reason why we don't see junior again. I think he dies. He dies. I think he and the first way to die. Yeah, both mother and Son Perish in a car accident shortly after Emily Leaves Charles. That's why we never see him again. Where was that? I don't remember that. That was at the beginning. In that Newsreel of his life, basically says that his wife left him and then she died like a week later because of a car accident with the sun in the car too. Are we supposed to speculate that he caused it up? Well, I wrote it down because I was like...

...maybe this will come up later, but it never did. I don't think he had anything to do with it. It's kind of like, I don't know, maybe I'm just used to violence and movies, but you expect like there to be some sort of shocking thing happening, like yeah, no, that that's exactly what I expected to and maybe that's the subtleties of what makes this movie great. Yeah, maybe we're so used to scandalizing everything. Yeah, that it's it's sometimes just that simple. So the next thing they're back at the inquirer and Leland is talking to Kane and says that he acts like he owns the people and he expects them to kind of do whatever he wants, like they would still elect him governor even though this happened, and I guess that's why they had that story about fraud, and I think he's using like his ownership over the newspaper to kind of once again by the affection of people. Yeah, yeah, and I also was thinking like Leland is the only person who's really honest with Kane about what he's doing and why you shouldn't be doing it, and I was surprised that king kept him around for so long because he usually shuts down everyone else who who talks to him and says, well, you shouldn't be printing this, like his wife. He completely shut her down. But right. And the next few seconds Leland says he wants to leave, he wants to go to Chicago. He doesn't want to be in the same newspaper that he is, that that Kane is right now. HM, well, I think so. Leland grew up without money, right, so he kind of he's really only interested in being friends with Kane like out of of pure loyalty. Yeah, he was the only one that was truly loyal to him and not looking for any money. And so when Kane like constantly disappoints him, I guess he finally got fed up with him and wanted to be out. This is also when Leland starts to drink and this whole interaction that he has with Kane he's drunk for it, which is it comes up later. And so now he marries Susan. Yes, once he married Susan, he it's like right after their wedding, they're walking out of it's either Church or Court House, and they get into this car and he's like, I love her singing. If, if she sings opera, I'm going to buy her an opera house. And he buys her an Opera House. And it was mentioned earlier, but he spent like three million dollars on this this building, and it shows her getting ready to perform at this Opera House and she also looks so flustered, like she doesn't look happy to be there. It was also kind of funny because like Susan's like when they first meet she really likes him because, like he makes her laugh right, but then they start talking and she's like Oh, yeah, I like to sing, yeah, I'll play you a song. And then he marries her. He's like we're going to make you a star, like here's this Opera House, like did I get you the best lessons? Ever, like he does. He goes from zero to one hundred real yeah, really does everything. But after this performance it seems like it's years later, not like a lot of years, maybe like two or three years later. But Leland and Kane haven't been speaking since he left. He went to Chicago, but now he's back and it's the same night, or maybe the night after the opera performance. But Kane goes into the office and he goes to talk to Leland and he finds him passed out at a typewriter because he was drinking. And Burnstein, who is with Kan, goes to read what he was writing and it's a review about how terrible his wife was at the opera. Cane takes the review like at first he's mad, but then he takes the review and goes to finish it himself, which Leland finds out when he wakes up. He doesn't change it at all. He just continues writing the batter view, which, once Leland comes out to talk to Kane, Kane fires him right away and we cut back to old Leland and he says that the reason that can published that same review and didn't change it out as at all was to kind of prove to Leland that he was an honest man. That's doesn't that's not how it this works. Yeah, you can't just write a bad review of your wife that you don't even think is true and then say, Oh, yeah, we're honest. Yeah, live about anything here. At this point where about to leave Leland and Leland says. He says that there was a room where that nurses used to be pretty, and it's not true then and it's not true now. He's just like bashing these nurses who are taking care of they're just standing there right next to him. Yeah, it's awful. The next movie that we need to watch needs to be strong female lead movie. We should find the movie that's passes the backtal test. You know...

...what that is? No, it's a test where you see, if a movie has two female characters that have screen time for more than five minutes where they talk about something other than a man, who we will and most movies don't pass it. Well, I know that none of the movies we've watched so far have passed that test. Yeah, most of these movies don't have women that talk to each other. Okay, well, next movie, strong female lead will see. I want something empowering. So then we go and the journalist is now talking to Susan and she brings up the fact that Kane didn't bring up marriage to her until after he had lost the election. So he kind of is like he lost something and to gain it back he could gain it back through marriage. But throughout their entire marriage he he kind of guides everything to how exactly he wants it to be. He doesn't give her any input in anything at all. Then they go to her first singing lesson and the voice teacher says like she can't sing, she's terrible and she didn't sound that bad to me. Yeah, I can't hit that note. So why are people so meant to her it just she just needed practice to reach those notes. That I don't know. It just confused me. Like she wasn't bad. Yeah, I don't know how she's impossible to teach, like, obviously her range is pretty nice. Yeah, and then like after Kane walks in and has her start again, she she reaches those notes, which I don't know. I was like, why do people keep making fun of her? Couldn't they've gotten someone who's more meet you, okre yeah, couldn't they gotten a terrible singer? And Kane's just like you just have to keep teaching her, and I agree. I don't think she's bad. But then it's another scene at the opera. Is the same performance but it's zoomed in on Kane this time and he hears a woman laughing during her performance and saying how bad it is. It's like wow, that's like clearly her husband sitting right next to you. But I think that people are saying that her singings good but her acting is awful, which, yeah, you can see that her I think, sucks. But then they get reviews and in the reviews it says that, shoot, her singing was bad and that, and she's surrounded by all these newspapers on the floor and she's just crying and screaming and she says to Kane that she had never wanted to sing in the first place, like she's like, why did you make me do this, because now they're all saying that I'm bad. Yeah, she like just casually brought up the fact that she likes to sing. But then, even after she gets all these bad reviews and she's like, I never wanted to sing the first place. He tells her that she has to keep going and she goes on a tour of the country and I was so I did notice, like it does, another newspaper real and it seemed like only positive reviews from all the other all the other newspapers. But yeah, but all the other new they were all in the choir newspapers. So after all these tours are this tour of the country, we see Susan lying in bed and there's a medicine bottle next to her and Kane comes in and then he gets a doctor and he kind of just says, Oh, I guess she drank too many or too much of this bottle of sedatives that the doctor gave her to help because she's stressed about the tour, but she tried to kill herself because she couldn't bear to tell Kane that she didn't want to sing anymore, that she was that this was never what she wanted to do. Like why, why would you make me do this? I felt like I couldn't tell you that I didn't want to, so my only way out was this. Well, she does tell him so many times and I think that she her words mean nothing to him. He just yeah, it's in one ear out the other. But I think this action really proved that she wasn't just complaining or whining. She that's not what she wanted to do. She had liked him for who he was, not for what he could do for her. And then, finally, Kane says that she won't have to fight to prove her worth to the world anymore, because why would anyone have to in the first place? Yeah, and then it's shown that he, that Kane Built Zana new for Susan, and she says to him like now you're shown this house and it's massive,...

...and she says him like I'm so lonely. This house is so big. We had people here last week and I don't even know if they're still here. This aufice so big. So when he use, when she was talking to him and kind of complaining about how lonely she is, he's like standing near the fireplace. The fireplace is so big, it's and so like extreme that he looks like a tiny human and it was really funny. But while she's like all she does is sit in front of this giant fireplace and does equally giant Jig saw puzzles each of them, Jake saw puzzle to kind of shows the passing of time and how boring it is. That's how I feel in quarantine now. It's like day sixty two. Yeah, and or she asks Kane to go to New York, like why don't we go back to New York, where where your newspapers are? Like, why don't we go back? There's things to do there, and he says no, I don't want to go, we're going to stay and that's that. So Kane recognizes that she's so upset after many, many times of her telling him, finally and he throws a picnic and invites a bunch of people and everyone is outside, but Kane and Susan are in a tent and she accuses Kane of treating her like one of his statues where he just throws money at her to get her to stay, and he says that he loves her, but she says to him like no, you don't love me, you only want me to love you and that's why you you do all these things, not to show you love me, it's so you can feel love for me. And then he just slaps her. Yeah, yeah, that was I don't know why every movie we've watched so far has violence towards women in it. Yeah, everyone so far. I know we've only done three, but like it's teaching people that that's okay. But also, before the picnic ends, where right after he slaps her, there's a woman screaming outside. I think it was kind of symbolism almost for how she she was feeling on the inside, because she was like completely done, but on the inside she's screaming like I need to get out of this unhappy situation. Yeah, and then she does. She packs her bags and and says she's going to leave, and the line that makes her leave is, well, basically he tells her lies and she looks like she's about to stay, she's about to take the bait and he goes, you can't do this to me, meaning that this is all about him, this is always been about him all along. Yeah, she's like see Ya, and then it cuts back to Susan in the present. She's much older now and she's finally telling her story to the journalist, and that's where this this is coming from. And she says to the journalist that he should talk to Raymond, who was the Butler of Sanna. Do that. The journalist Travel Susanna Dow and Raymond says that he'll talk about rose bud, but what's it worth to him? And he's like maybe a thousand dollars, and he says that Kane acted crazy sometimes. And then there's this transition back into the past. But what they're they're showing is kane acting crazy, like this is right when she leaves him and he closes her suitcase and then just throws it across the room and then picks up another suitcase and tosses it and then he just goes around and smashes apart the whole room, ripping things off the walls. He goes to break things on this the small little table, but he stops and picks up a snow globe with a little tiny house inside of it and he shakes it and the snow falls and it's just like that, one of the very first scenes of the movie. So this snow clothes kind of resembles the boarding house that his mom owned and I think that it kind of reminds him of his past. Yeah, that's why he keeps it this whole time. So then we are cutting to present day and they're packing up all of these statues and and everything that's in there, like some of its junk. He collected junk, he collected valuable statues and he collected everything, and the journalist is just kind of talking about canes life and he's kind of come to the conclusion that maybe rose but didn't mean anything but his whole that the journalists whole time it just been like a Jig saw puzzle because he's trying to put these pieces of canes life together that don't necessarily make sense, that they maybe they do fit together, maybe they don't, but you have to figure it out on the right way. And then journalist also mentions that maybe Rosebud is something that he lost and could never get back, and that's that's kind of where I what I was thinking about most of the movie,...

...like rose. But is that like that's why he kept buying these things? Because he had he had lost something in his childhood, like he lost the love of his mother, he lost his innocence because he was taken away to live with this banker when he was so young, and it was easier to collect things and have that try and fill a hole in his heart then to address it and figure out why he felt like he couldn't love people. I think he kind of realizes that love is pretty much the only thing you can't buy. That's the only thing he doesn't have yet and he spends his whole life trying to look for it and searching for in different people. And he doesn't know how love because his mom like gave him away for money, and he also because he thinks that money's the only way to like kind of get someone's approval or their loyalty. He doesn't have anything to give someone else besides material items. So as the film and they're kind of panting over all the stuff packed up in boxes and the Butler saying, let's get rid of all this junk, and they pick up the sled and then they go to this giant furnace and you see it being tossed in and it zooms into it and it says Rosebud and as it's kind of burning, that's like it's like burning the paint off of our and the barnish off of it first, but the only thing that's left when that happens is the word Rosebud. And then it ends. It's like a shot of outside of the house in this black, black smoke coming up from the chimney and it zooms in on the no trespassing sign and then that's the end of the movie. HMM. What are your concluding thoughts on that? I really liked it. I think it it made me think a lot and, like we've said, we I expected like once like that first thing happened, I expected there to be violence. I expected like there to be something sinister going on, and it's just this was his life, like this is this is why he is the way he is. It was kind of that question that they were looking to answer at the beginning with the journalists, like not what he does but why he does it. And I feel like it and answer that and I thought it was really good. Thoughts. Oh, yes, I like movies that you can watch like you're reading a book. Like when you're reading a book, you look for symbolism and themes and, Um, that's why I kind of appreciate this movie, because there's a lot of that and you kind of have to put two and two together to figure out, like, what some symbols mean, and I like how the sled was a symbol of his lost love and his lost innocence. Yeah, and I I appreciate the subtlety of of everything. Yeah, are we glad that we've seen it now? Yeah, no, I'm this is my favorite one so far. Definitely same, but next, next we should watch a movie with strong female characters, that is true. We definitely need that. I feel like that I'll be hard to find in like classic movies, but I'm sure there's one out there. All right. Well, thanks for listening. That is the end of our discussion on citizen Kane. Hopefully we have a strong female presence in the next one, but that's all for now. Yes, so, if you would like to follow us on social media, our instagram is how have we never podcast and our facebook is how have we never seen this before, and make sure to send US suggestions and movies to watch and also play along with our guests. The movie of the week to get a shadow at the beginning of the episode. All right, bye, bye. Hey, congratulations, you've made it to the end of our podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening. How have we never seen this before? Is produced by is B barone. The music is by Scott Holmes. The podcast art is by Michael Beaumont over at monitor comics, and our social media is run by Lauren Cola. Thanks for listening.

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