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How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 2, Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Dead to Me: "Don't Be A Woman Who Blames The Woman."

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In Season 2 Episode 6, Isabel and Lauren discuss Dead to Me.

Join us as we discuss Lauren's weird obsession with James Marsden, if Judy is really is a psychopath, and different ways of handling grief.

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art!

Thanks for listening!

I everyone welcome back to Havehav. Wenever seen this before this week. We discussed dead to me join us as wediscuss Lawren's weird obsession with James Morriston. Whether Judy is asociopath and different ways of handling grief. This is a podcast where two bestfriends talk about movies they've, never seen before. I'm Isabel and I'mLauren- and this is how V we never seen this before so this week, we're goingto try something a little different, we're goingna change up our structure.I guess so. We took some feed back and we're going to try it out. Let us knowwhat you think: Let's get Rin into the shell, butLauran has some fun facts before he begin to go ahead yeah, so I don't knowI just wanted to kind of like introduce Ta show and give you a more likeindepth, look at the cast and like some of the producers,because I think it's Kindo interesting. So this is a netflax series Um and itwas also nominated for so many enies, not only the show but the actors yeah,but because it's technically considered a tragic comedy which falls into thecomedy genre. I believe Um Shitz creek took all of the emes for that so m. It didn't win any, but it was stillnominated good for nets. Like so M, okay, so m, the show was created byLizveldman who's, a comedian actress writer producer, essentially the Jackof all trades and Showbiz, which I think is really cool. How the show wascreated by a woman. You could tell that it was created by a woman. You KnowYeah W. I also thou wre, probably going to say this, but I saw that will ferrowas a producer yeah. That was my next point. So M also will Ferell and Adam McKayadamocdirected anchorman Um produced the show, and so it makes sense thatChristina applegate was starring an and, I think that's like kind of cool. Howum I wouldn't expect that from Willfarel and Ata McKay Honestly andwhile I was researching all of this, I found out that Adam McKay was raised inPhilly and he goes. He went to the high school near my house, but yeah, Oh andChristina oplalgate is also a producer. So I just love the friendship and it's just so funny. How like haveyou ever seen? Anchorman Yeah you Wundn't, expect such like.This is going to sound so offensive. You wouldn't expect such smart humorand a smart show from yeah from Willfarel and Adamaqu, but I guess theywere just producers. They probably didn't write any of the episodes I mean.I don't know I tikthey're probablylike, like they know their audience. Sothat's why they like do that, but I tir probably e like Pretty Sart people yeah.It just baffles me how they went from like Taladaga nights to this show yeah,but I could see this coming from Christina apligade. She was a smartwoman. I love her. So do I wel we're on the same page on somanythings we're really insink this week, guysyeah, it's o crazy. We were both onwl, no, we weren't. I wasn't on top of myshow watching, but I did do it earlier. In the day, I usually do it from Um, like ten thirty PM to two am and this this time I did it from two PM to fiveand then seven nine. You only minorly procrastinated, this time, whoyu for me. I actually you guys should be proud ofme. I actually spaced this one out over the course of two days instead of thenight before so I had a little bit more time to take in the show. We also plan what Showere doing next week, but we're not telling you so yeah Haha, so also the caste is like reallyamazing in this show, if you haven't seen it whish, he should m Linda Cardineli or Cara Cardolini frome Thatbyea ing from I I like to know her from freaks and Geeks. Oh, I knowher from the live action. Scooy do oh yeah. She also please Um Velma yeah,but like she's in freaks and Geeks, which is an amazing show that was cuttoo short, which also has an incredible cast, but a fun of fact. Her brother infreeks and Geeks is m sweets and bones. I've been watching bones so much M, butanyway never di that out tow. I drave that out last week, like finallyclicked ton, my brain M,...

...but also Chrisina appligates, obviouslyin the show hern and winner, the two man characters and then James Marsdon Jes, a Lo. I shell, you may know him from enchanted or Xmen or a hairspray live or not live like themovie version, yeah, so good, so good. I Love JamesMarrston. We have no choice but to stand. I feel like there's. There can'tbe that many people that don't love James Marson. I really hope he didn'tdo anything that would lead us to cancel him, but I think he's O K. I hope. Oh, healso did that Sonic, the hedgehog movie. I refuse to watch that an I won't watch,but I know he was in it sheld. We do that next season. Please no but yeah Um, so we can gothrough like a quick overe of some of the cats and then we're going to shryand keep the some reasnof the episode short just? U Like favorite moments orlike reactions to like what we were reacting to when it happened, and alsoI kinda looked at all of the themes from this show I think Hitas Good Ani, nno yeah. Also we decided to do season onof this show, like we've been doing with all the other shows Um. So youprobably have seen that already. So we're we're going into this. Assumingthat you kind of know the basic premise of the show yeah and if not like we're,not, I guess, they're spoiler, so spoiler alyr, but there's still like alot of things that we wilt touch on yeah, apparently season two is insane IW I want to ATC like. I know we say that at the end, but like I won't watchit so bad. I really liked this show. I thought it was oed. I wanted to keepgoing at the end of it, but I had to rein myself in yeahme too. I was likeif I keep going lit, then I'm going Ta want to talk about it and I don't want to make this two hours long yeahe. So first OFP WEHAVE GEN harding. She is pretty much. I would say she has a little bit morescreen time than her co Star. I don't know why it took me so long to come tothat. COAM! THAT'S MRE! It's more about her! I Guess Yeah Yeah, so shes play byChristina Applgay, as we've mentioned m she's, a real ter, she's kind of very,not kind of she's, very uptight, extreme angry issues, um and the showkind of focuses on her dealing with the loss of her husband, Ted and shemeditates by listening to heavy metal mhmanything else, you'd like to add tojenharding. I don't think so like there's definitely like more to herthan that, but I don't want to get into it. Yeah Bu anger issues, yeah MHM,MHMM SH. I GO FLOR IT Yours! So then there'sjuty when we meet Judy. She is dealing with the loss of her fiance I'll, saythis part just 'cause. It happens in the first episode but M l. We find outthat Judy didn't actually lose her fiancee. They had broken up two monthsago because she had been hat. She had about five miscarriages and they justlike kind of fell apart after that. So she's like she works at a a retirementcommunity, she's an artist and he kind of starts to think she's. Like aMichological, liar yeah, I have some. I have some Quantenin that I'd like toask you about that ill, get into those and go. Oh. I also think she's a vegetarianslike II'm gonto bring that up every time. Ise As a vegetarian, I've beentrained, see the signs when someone else mightbe a vegetarian, probably is now she she rejects. Nick Soup. She also theJon Grigt. I thought that's just 'cause. She was upset, I'm sorry andthen. Shealso. U. She Fed the boys either beyond or impossible man WerTofu, worse Tayten. I don't really know, but yes, vegetarian, Queen, okay, I guess I'll go next, so we haveno. Our other postw, Oh yeah, our other host Elisabel she's, going togive it in a son. So next we have Steve AK. JamesMorrison he's uty's very much alive...

...xfiance. He speaks Greek Um, yet he's very handsomeand very scharming, and no that is not subjective. That is an objectiveconclusion m and she malls incermin. Yet okay, she said it onme Um, so yeahhe is but there's more to em than meets se eye. Yet at's Anout, it yeah. I feellike there are' really any other main characters like Um genemast, two sons, Charlie and Henry,but she calls Henry Boop and I love it and he're fairly cute, O Kuti andthere's also Um. So they meet out like a grief group therapy session. Sothere's there's those people and the head of the he's. L He's a passor, butlike he leeds the session H, I don't know his name but he's Um his name'sWayne Owain there's a theme with me. I never knowthat M, but he's my trings dad and clean. Oh, my God, he looked familiar. Wow MHM, that's funny! So there arejust two. I wrote down two other characters that Areli not as importantS. sorry, I just remembered one excitement Ma. Oh, I didn't write him down, but he'simportant too. I Love Im, but if you want to talk about ap since Youare, sopassionate about him Um, he he's an old man who lives in theretirement community. That juty works at he's. Just like he's, fet anger asshe too, he gets mad and he can't find a puzzlepiece and it's like right,undred a box, but he he's just really there for Judy and like lets her talkto him about all of her problems and just really like doesn't judge her forthem, but works through them with her and also like, is there for her whenSteve shows up or like at her job or something and ther'slike you suck and Likt Leav, I love Amy's, so great yeah. He isgreat. So the last two people that I think are kind of important. That wellmention my name. One of them is nick a he is a former detective. He lost hispolice partner and he likes to take things slow with people. He's a verygood guy because, of course, mainstream media likes to paint cops as goodpeople. Sorry, I won't go into that, but h plasbut at least we have Christopher, who is jensstay partner, Heis veryreligious and wants to get them involved. Ith Church you'll see thatreligion. It's kind o like a recurring theme throughout the show. So I thoughtI' mentioned that yeah and Jenis like from the beginning. You can see thegunsvery against organize reais, so basically a quick overeview of I. Wedidn't even do an overview of the show really, but I mean I feel like I think it's fineepisode, one introduces it all yeah. So a quick oerre of episode, one. We meGen and judy they're. Both part of this Um grief, counts. Counseling Group thatI mentioned and Jen's husband was killed in a and run, and I think it'simportant to say like one of the first things that they talk about at thatslike I keep previtting the wor othere's likegroup, is that Wain says think about the F word, which for them isforgiveness, and that's also like a really big theme in the show. I thinkso keep that in the back of your mind and there's also like definitely somethingoff about judy from the second. You me hear there's something weird and by the end of this episode we just Inow what I had said before, that Judy fance I didn't die and it was a resulteo like miscarriage an them just kind of falling. Apart after that MHM goingback. I have seen the first like three minutes of thes show before Whoa youcheated, I tun know, but I don't know why I stoppd, like I don't like I'm,I'm so interested in it now like even in those first few minutes. I wasinterested. I don't know why I stopped before but m. So I did like have thatsuspicious feeling towards judy already, but I like as soon as ars, like I feellike, I thought she was lying about the grief which I was right not likecompletely like, but like her reasoning behind it. I also thought that should be like astocker towards Gen, an my own yeah, and so this this is my exact note.I feel like Judy. Did it or judy is...

...going to be obsesse with Gen MHM, and I was right. I kindo knew that Judy was the one thatkilled Ted essentially beforehand. I don't know how I knewthat, but somehow, like maybe, I saw a spoiler somewhere here. My Mom told mebecause she watches the show, but I just knew I don't know why I'm notsmarter than anyone or anything, but someone told me along the way yeah, butthat was kind o. like my reaction, Ou know mhm. It was just like. I reallyappreciated how, in every episode like it was definitely a mystery, and Ireally like tell there was kind of like a big drop at the end of every episodeor like right before the eninet made. You want to keep going yeah, and Idon't I really liked that it wasn't like a complete L Ke. It wasn't like acomplete episode. It was like it wasn't like you could stop. After that episode,you had to keep going and Lik himyeah. I did like how they gave us a tinypiece to the puzzle throughout the whole show Yeahum. I thought that waspretty smart. The only thing I didn't like about this episode was the spacingof it. I don't, I Guess Ama. So Jen is a very uptight person. Shedoesn't have any friends. She doesn't like to let people into her lifebecause she has to have control over everything, but she seemingly lets judyin so quickly, and maybe it's like the grief, but shedoesn't let any of her neighbors in she doesn't let anyone else in. Maybe it'sbecause she knows that she thinks that Judy's been through the same thing asher, but she she lets her in so quickly and they become friends and bond sofast and she she gives her. She tells her so many deep secrets. So I thoughtthat that was kind of out of character for her. I enjoyed the spacing for therest of the show, but it just seems like they became friends so fast. Ithink also. Maybe it's because, like everyone else in her life, they likeher neighbors and everything they can make issunctions about them from liketheinclose, poxamity and Judy was kind of just this, seemingly random person who cameup to her at like at the coffee station at counseling, and that was it. You knoMHM, yeah, yeah, you're, right Lke, thatthat could be a possibility too it just like, especially after finding out thatshe lied about the reason why she was at the grief meetings like she. It wasbecause of her miscarriages and not because of her fiance dying. It's justweird that you think that if someone crosses genonce like that she would she would be even more closed off. I think it's'cause she had already like given not given up, but Lik told her so much like'cause. They get really close like she helps her fall asleep that firstNightli ten like Hashin sleeping and that she just like Talkd to juing til.She falls asleep that first night, so I think, like she doesn't want to give uplike really give up that feeling of. Like maybe I'll, be OK, it's that theysaid. I at one point it's like the three minutes of hope. You know, and Ithink that's what it was at the beginning for her yeah. Okay, I seethat do av anything else for seone. I guess my last thing that I was my lastpoint that I was going to make is it's just like you can tell that a smartwoman wrote this Um scripts because they say they sprinkle in aspects offeminism and they don't make it a big deal. They just they normalize it. Sowhen Gen says she says a lot of things like when talking about the miscarriagewell, I believe it was an actual thing, not if a Republican is asking but um and I think that's. I reallyappreciate how the show just incorporates like a feminist way ofspeaking and doesn't draw attention to it ormake it a big deal. It just normalizes it in conversation yeah, it was like itwas super casual, they said it, they laughed and they just kept going andthat happens throughout the whole show, like that's just an example yeah. Soyeah like that. So an episode too Steve Sells his house and Genis teon sellinghis house Um, and she thinks it'll help. Judy move on M and now judy is livingwith Jen and her kids hate her essentially, and it basically follows that whole saga and Um. We also findout in this episode that Gen has huge anger issues. So there's this likecorvette or whatever driving around speeding and she decides to vandalizethe car and yeah th. That's basically it yeah and the biggrebeal at the endof this episode is that Steve was in...

...the car when they hit Gen's husband, soit's like, oh, like who like who could be like really implicated in it in getcaught like what happen yeah yeah, so they're in it together, yeah. I didn'treally have much on this episode. This, like Kindo, like gave me those likeJudy Migh, be a stacker kind of ides Um 'cause Sou gives her a restrainingorder too a won't wait, but he takes a bet yeah. That was also kind of weird howhe seems to want nothing to do with her until they have like a romanticgrendezvous. I don't get it. I don't know why he like, I feel like it couldhave been fine if he never got involved again. Yeah I Thi K, that's ie kind. Ofeposodetoo, was not like a feiler episode, but there wasn't like a big YH yeah, but I think evisod three was reallyimportant. Yeah. We see more about Gen's angery issues in this episode,but basically it surrounds US memorial that she decides to do for her husband on hisbirthday, mostly out of spite for her mother in law but Um. Basically, they do like they write,notes on a balloon or right nose on a piece of paper roll it up and put it ina balloon and like release into the sky and for during this judy gets arrestedbecause she takes blame for smaching this corbette. So I think that reallysolidifies their friendship just 'cause. She really like took a bullet for herbecause, like her kids were there her mother in law was there and just like she didn't like want that to happen toher on this, like memorial, for her husband, and we also find out like asthe balloon comes back like the one O know. Her Son wrt was about this gamehim and his dad used to play, and he like misses playing it with him. So Jen goes online and it's like hey it'syour mom, il I'll, try and play with you. 'cause like she knows. Dont meanlots him, but while she's on there, the account is her husband's account and hesaws. She gets a message from someone who is like. Oh my Gosh, I've missedyou like. When can I see you again? It's her husband was creating on her mhm,but basically I really liked that in this episode in particular and likeenter all of them, that the show is a mystery, but it's also a really gooddiscussion about grief and like how how different people handle that and alsolike going to therapy, also like, like gens like a very close off person. Butshe like took a step to go to grief counseling, which I think is is prettycool and yeah. I think I don't know. I think I couldave, like oddly learned alot from the show when I was younger and like from I, don't don't no death wellsolike, just like learning how differen peoplemanage agree. Mmthat Wa's interesting yeah, because I think that Everan,depending on what you go through in your relationship to the person, reactsdifferently and you be really angry, really depressed and the show kind ofcovers it and makes it tells you that it's Ok to feel that way,and here ' some ways to handle it here. Some waist ti not handle it.Yemurdering people also my one question, and I don't youprobably don't have the answer to this, but like how did judy find out that Jen was the wife of the guy who she hitlike she shows up at this man's funeral too. I just don't understand how she was able to so quickly draw theconnection because, like as you fignd out, they didn't go back to see who itwas. It got hit. Mhm Ie probably made the news and there is probably anobituary, so I'm assuming she looked up, hit and run accidents in the news andfound that or like look looked up the police records. My pointfor this episode was that, at the end of the episode you find out, that Tedwas cheating on Jen um through this video game, which is just kind of funnyM and Um. The show kind of shows you thatnot everything is always what it seems like. There's no such thing as aperfect family and Jen and Ted's marriage was definitely less thanperfect Um. Despite the the image that it gives off M and so yeah the more yousee the more you get a glimpse into theirmarriage, and you see that Ted's not exactly the best husband, Genton,actually, the best wife, the more you see, I guess judy kind of kind of thinking that it wasn't a badthing that he died, yeah, which is like weird. I kind of think that Judy is asociopath Anane Saidi was going to ask...

...you like you're all there are some likepoints that I wanted to bring ut in like future episodes, and I wanted toask you if you L, Ke, think that she's a socioman there's a point in the nextone that I was like hm okay. Okay, so shall we get into the fourth episode? Okay, so Um episode for a Stephen Dudy have been hooking up again,that's like kind of a big plot point, but another big pot point that's goingon at the same time is Um. Jene is trying to figure out who this girl thather husband cheated on her with is, and so they go to this restaurant and theyrealized that Ted had told this girl. This really young girl who who thought that Ted was her boyfriend,that Gen was dead and died of breath, ancwerand so, of course, Genis distraught and Jen says that she's glad he's dead,which kind of makes judy smile creply at the end of the episode, it was veryweird, but what's kind of important about this episode is that Christinaapplegate actually did have a metectomy. She had prest cancer in two thousandand eight and M. that's like a big part of her life. She she talks about it alot and Um. I thought that it was really important that they they tiedthat in because in the show, Um Jen had a mestectomy M, because her mom died ofbreast cancer and she that's kind of a big point, because Ted after she didthat didn't want anything to do with her sexually Um, which is reallyupsetting, but yeah yeah. I think like it's really. The waythey tie. That in is is really important too, because later later on machine, I guess S.that's kind of was my oint bl. She mentions that like Ho, wouldn't touchher after that, and I think that's like at least from what I understand Li.That's really scary, for a lot of women at like something that could like justbecause they're trying to stay alive and like be preventative or somethinglike that it could ruin a marriage with someone that you think, like reallywill be there for you. Despite that, I know it's awful ylike your marriage isruined because your disgusting husband is sad that you don't have two sacks ofwhat could be cancerous fat on your chest. Are you kidding it', just like Ithatwn as like? That's not for maybe an episode or two, but I was like wowTed's kindo an even like after a cheat Owneris,just like kind of like Tet sucks, I hate ten, you never meet Tetintet O, he may bedead, but I kind o hate him. I Cann't meet like all the charactersin this show. I Love Them. I love to hate them. Yeah, they're, Allso,problematic, the one part where I was like. Oh, likeJudy's, Kinda, crazy. It was like she like. I get like kind of why she did it,but she says to this girlfriend she's like Ted's dead, I'm his wife and theway she kindof like it's notlike. Something Jen had asked her to do itwasn't like it wasn't like she had been saying it's otlike. She just said thatwas his. What like the girl who walked out that's his wife, it was like I'mhis wife, and that was so creepy. That's not right, yeah, oh also. What Iliked about this episode is that Um in th in the morning, Steve Wakes up to apodcast. Could you imagine like waking up to uslike imagine that, like you wake up and it's Um like yeah, I agree it's like problematic, likeimagir waking up to my voice, saying that Thet'l be so fun like I like that, butI also liked hol after the procast arts playing, he jumps on his tramp non. Hislegs like go, who, like imagine that, but like jumping on atramplining alone, I'm talking about it was so funny I loved it. Yeah Steve isgreat, even though he's not so episode of five. is they go to agrief retreat with their counseling group and basically it'skind of like a lesson I'm like moving on from grief?That's really what I got from it as that, like Gens, like obviously upset aboutbinging that she's just on about her husband, but he she also like did losehim after them being together for almost twenty years. So it's like hertrying to find this new guy and judy also meeting nick who was there becausehe lost his partner in shooting or something basically, something oh right,Jen's, like really upset after she...

...doesn't end up like getting with this guy who's. ActuallyUm Kevin Pevit, I same aswhich is likeColcaus like he's in Theretoo, but she like goes to smoke a cigarette andshe's walking. She like drops him and then she' almost gets hit by a car, andit's like a real awakening for her she's like wow. I gotto like get mylife together and be there for my kids because they can't lose me too, and thelast thing about the episode is Um. The detective so judy hooks up with Nickwho's the detective and he she mentions the case and he wants to investigate it.I don't know if he said that, but no, I didn't but yeah that's how theylike really instart interecting with Nicthey Star. He says he'll investigatebecause he's still only mhm, yeah yeah, so episode. Six. This one is kind of animportant episode, because it's all about religion Um, so I call them theJays, Jen and Judy. The chays are looking at a sthrine forTed on the side of the road and Um Jenis like what is this cross doing oin the shrine like? Why do they assume that I'm, a Christian and um she kindof becomes cynical about organized religion and Um? At the same time, nickis coming to investigate the case, and we also find out that Charlie, the Genson has been selling drugs at school and it turns out that they were teds drugs,um his prescription pills and judy fines, a nine, the nine year old girlthat found Ted's body on the side of the road and she finds this girl atHenry's. Choir recital and M so jen, basically realizes that all her kidsare losing it they're not doing as well as they thought, because CharlieSelling Drugs Henry's freaking out at this forsital having anger issues,Tayecan Clam Agan Stuf from his mom. He had a huge outburst, so Um Chris, herrealer partner, says why don't you take them to my church, Um and also he charley has to go to church because Umof his drug selling habit, it was the only way to avoid the police, and sothey kind of get involved in church, and the big reveal at the end of thisepisode is that m. The girl who Judy meets that found Ted's body Um, comesover and gives Gen some of the evidence that she took from the scene of thecrime, which is the headlight to Judy's car and E. OH another thing thathappens is Charlie. Has a gun- oh yeah, so SOK hapen. In this episodethere was a lot going on, like I comes over to in his like policing form tolike scare Charle into just being like realizing. What he did was wrong,but then he's like unnow to your bag for more drugs, but trs like nonothey'll, do that and when he does there's like an actual gun in his bagwith the safety off, which is incredibly dangerous, like that, could have gone off at anytime if, like anything in his bag, like hit it wrong. So it's also like I think t this is like also lessen justto like look out for your kids ind times like this like yeah. Definitely,and it also is kind of pro religion in this sense, like maybeI wouldn't say it's prorelision, I think it's like pro giving your kidsthe ability to like decide if that's something theywant in their wife, yeah, true, but also gen ends up getting more involvedwith the church. I think that the show kind of like teaches a lesson that,even if you don't exactly agree with Um everything that the church stands forand like or disagree with organized religion, it's kind of Nice to have acommunity of people who want to help you yeah. Even if you dislike religionwhich, like you can agree with disagree with, but like yourself personally, but I justthink that's like maybe what the the show is trying to tell us or show usyeah, I really appreciate Hollik, even though genrs still like pretty closeoff, she allows Henry to be baptized andeverything I think. That's I don't know, I think, that's importantto give kids a choice like, even if you don't believe in it just likesupporting them and whatever their decision is yeah exactly so. We alsofind out, at the end of the episode that her car is missing from thisstorge Lolker, where she's been keeping it so in episent, seven judy goes toseeve about the car and Um. It turns out that hes like breaking itapart, so that no one can find it and there's Gen like loses her job,basically because her partner says because of her anger issues. It'sreally not working like sh she's,...

...caring, Awa clients in one of thosekinds was the dad from even Stevens. Oh, my God, I didn't even know that yeah, the MOMW or like the wife was reallyfamiliar too, but I can't remember whath she's from Um, but basically it'slike kind of Wakca for her to work on her anger, so she can support her kids.Also Abe is ere really there for Juy. In this episode I love aim and we alsofind out that Ted, which is Jen's husband, wasn't rin running shoes whenshe got when he died, which this the story was kind of that he had gone outfor run late at night and got hit. We don't really know why he laugh at thispoint. We found it later, but um it's like. Oh. Maybe he was going to meetsomeone or maybe he I N'. Maybe it was something else. Maybe he like jumped infront of the car on purpose Um. There was a wholle thing about this time thatJudy and Steve went to a rock place and they took sacred rocks and, like that's like Judys, very, likeUm, I thin sh may be Buddhist, but she's, I don't know it's be superstitious.Yeah Eshe has crystals next to her bed, but at the same time she also keeps thecross that Gen tried to throw out in the previous episode yeah. I don'treally know she may just she might. She may just bespiritual, yeah, but she's also supertitious about the rocks yeah likeJames Marison. Let this be a lesson to you: Never Steal, O rock from awaterfall, because it messes up the INCO system and it will ruin Your LifeYep pretty much. Also on this episode we get a James,Morson sexseen. So Oh yeah, we have no choice but, oh God, i'sorty episode, Eig Jen is trying to find thepeople who own the Ninehneen and sixty six must sang and she's being sneakywith Judy and nick she's, basically going into other people's houses M toappraise them because she's a realtor, but why would anyone let her into theirhouse like that's how you get robbed? Essentially, I know how like real tea.arealty works, like do people like normally do that, just like go aroundand be like. Hey Your House looks nice. If you ever look isel sometimes that'llhappen. They'll do in appraisal, but usually they it's not so on the spot, and so I think that was just reallykind, O bizarre, but yeah so they're doing that and UmJudy finds out that Jamess Art Studio is on the list ofaddresses that they should be checking out. James Yeah Tk Grts is James' artstudio like where he's Oh James, marrisoon, sorry, Steve, odlord. I've been referring to MissJames Mars. Yes, it's Steve's art studio and also,at the same time, Judy faints and keeps starting up, which leads her to believethat she might be pregnant because she just thinks she is and m nick is tryingto take care of her because she he assumes that they're not pregnantbecause s. He thinks that they're exclusive and they haven't been havingsex. So he just thinks that she's sick, not with corona, though this was Troe, and so a lot happens inthis episode too. But Jen kind of goes off the beaten path and decides to takematters into her own hands when they find out a guy who lives. Four blocksaway from the accident had two Duis and Um. So she goes into his house and he he'screepy he kind of a salter. She punches him in the nose and Judy finds out thatshe's not pregnant. She takes a pregnancy test, but then she leaves itsitting out for so long that it turns positive. So she thinks that she had apositive test and it basically ends with Nick cracking the code essentiallyM and judy breaking up with him because she's still in love with Steve Yeah. Ididn't really have much on this episode. So hat the only thing I have Oh, oh, Ido have some points to bring up asly. So, Oh, I think it's interesting how Ifeel like all of these problems could have been avoided. If Judy and Steve adopted a child lkenone of this sort of happened, Ithink yeah I feel like the whole trajectory of their lives would havebeen different. I don't know hy Tey didn't do that. Iwell Y, I t kN, I don'reado Um and then the other point was...

...like. I think Judy's artwork is veryinteresting. If you wanto like discuss that at all yeah, I mean I kind go into episode noine too, because in Arizo nine they're, both like trying to Livout their dreams like at the very beginning, gencersprinind, danceclasses and Judy's working on her art. Her art is like generally, it's likelittle girls like realistic. I paintings of little girls, but there'slike a heart cut out of them like around their like stomach areas, justlike see through in a hard shape. Um. I think it's just like her. It's defninlyhow she coked with her miscarriages. She Um is drawing these children thatshe'll never have like part of their heartislike. Part of her heart ismissing and nick found it kind of creepy. It islike a little like kN creepy, but like like I I can see why she's doing it andlike the last she's working on is painting of herself with the heart outof it, 'cause she's really like now. She knowsshe was never pregnant and she really lost Steve and Nick and there's just aloct going on yeah and she's going through Menopaus yeah, and so in thisepisode, Jenis truggin financially. She goes to her mother in law for help whoshe doesn't like and Steve Visits Judy at work and they're like arguing aboutlike what happened. The night that had died and then Abe was around the corner and he foundout wh H. I was like no A. I thought he was like something Ba as going tohappen right, then, why not? He was like wike. What do you want to do and shewas like? I want to tell the truth and he says like telling the truth will set.You free- and I really thought like a was like disguiding light for her,which was like she really needed so what she does, which is dumb, but Icino get it. She goes to the cops and sell them, let seeve as a money,launderer Fer, these Greek businessmen and that's like Quitenos,Greek and whatever so they're starting that investigation andthen Gen's kids move out 'cause they're mad at her. They go to the mother inlaw and Genso upset they're like outside drinking, and I don't know whatlike brought it on E. I can't remember lik her something, but judy tells Jenthat she's, the one who hit Ted and Jons like F like get out like I neverwant to see you again. Obviously, TA is reaction. She goes to the UM nursing home to talk to ame about itand Avis died, and I was so upset. No, the best man in this whole show yeah, I loved him. There was like justlike a lot that won on that episode, thereas, there's so much. Oh. What Ithought was interesting about this episode is Lorna is talking about thebutterfly effect MHM. I just thought like it. It's interesting how oneincident created all of this and the more that we find out about whathappened. It kind of ships. AL blame on a bunchof different people. It kind of shows that, like it stems all the way backfor years, this one incident that changed everyone's lives forever. LikeI don't it's, I I don't know. I just thought that was interesting. Therelike had to be a lot of things that fell into place. For All of this tohappen, I think that's kind of w yeah, like it even goes so far back to when Um Jen was nineteen years old and hermom died of breast cancer, like there's so many incidents that that you cantrace this all the way back to even Gen's childhood. That made this incident happen, whichkind of like makes you think a little bit about fate. yeahanother thing is why so I had a question so Judy's artcan go for up to twenty thousand dollars. IAS Like Wow. It's not true,because I know that the artstudio place was just a front for the Greek mafia business a, but is herart really worth that much? If so, why can she don't support herselffinancially? I think she can like Arnest can really like price their workat whatever they want to, like whatever they thin its worth. I think in anygallery will be Uupso to cover gallery costs as well. Um I mean I ' I don't know if she everactually sold a piece of art. That might be why she can't support herselffinancially, but she also might just like really like what she does if shehas like oar yeah, but also at the same time you, if no one's buying your art,you might want to Um lower your price, it might have been seeve, he might haveset them yeah. He seems very controlling over her. So...

...another thing that I don't really likeis Judy has free will she could have verywell turned herself in at the beginning of all of this. Yes, of course, Stevewas like no can't look back. Judy very well could have herself just becauseshe was convinced by Steve. NATU doesn't mean she's a better person thanhim. I think her like thing like, I think, like Steve, manipulated her butlike her thing like to make it right was like and she explains it. She waslike I thought like by becoming your friend. I could like be there for youand and like make it Oky like up that's right or anything like if you hitsomeone please stay at the scene and turn yourself inUm, but I think that's kindof where her justification was for Tham Yeah. I mean,I guess, Everon just blames Seeve for this incident. That happened, but Stevewasn't behind the wheel. Steve didn't ultimately make the decision not toturn back like jet Judy could have easily. She was the one with steeringshe could have turned around and gone back to the crime called the police.Maybe TEB would be alive, but she was scared. I think she was scared of whatsee would do to her. I mean yeah, but I don't know I have connections withthe Greek mafia also at the same time, he never you never hurt her. He can bepretty emotionally abusive and clearly financially as well. I I don't know. I just think that itwas her decision to make and that Steve isn't all to blame for this, but at jseems alt of blame, but I don't think it's that simple Judy's, not thatIndependent. She like Sheis, Dr, like she can't like anything. She does she'sstill like with steeve. You know yeah, but also at the same time she hasleverage. overseive she's always had leverage overseeve. She knew about hisconnections and se e didn't think she was strong enough or that, and hedidn't think she was strong enough to use that against him. She thought hehad enough power over him. Orshe hadough power over her, like that. Shewould never do that because she was so in love with him Yeh, but you can't uselove as an excuse to try and get away with murder. No, I I know, but likethat's what he I think he assumed that she would never like betray him likethat, because she was so dependent on him. I guess I mean your dependence onsomeone. Still can't really justify your actions. U You can't Tal Te bi it',just why she did it. She like she just can't she's, not independent at allyeah. I didn't now see she had Gen. I guess I mean like what I'm saying isthat Everon solely blames see for all of this. Like he's an awful person, heis manipulative, but also at the same time. I think that, just because Judy did what she did fora reason doesn't make it any better. No ' Ot t all NBETTER, but I think that'swhy she did what she did M K. I just Kinda hate judy a little bi they alsockyeah. I mean I, I I think that Gen is the way she is because of what whathappened to Ted. I think that Judyis to blame for that and she kind of makesherself seem so innocent. I see through that, you know, Jin doesn't she's hotjet doesn't get the whole picture like we do. I know I just think that Gen isa master. Manjudy is a master manipulator yeah I mean she is Okead.We can go into the last episode. Yes, so everon's lives are fallwing apart.Essentially, Um Gen doesn't tell anyone about judy until she turns she doesn'ttell anyone in her life about Dudy, but gen ends up turning judy into the police and the police.Don't really do anything about it, because there is an investigation onsomething bigger at hand, which is James, Marton, cve, vngtie to Amatiaand Gen sets up a lot of cameras in her house and outside of her house. Judyisn't really supposed to be around any of them essentially, and she shows upto Henry's church recital practice andgives her him give Henry a bird. That's supposed to be representative of Ted from previous episodes. Um and JEN is trying to make new friendsbecause she doesn't really have any and um she. She can't really get along withanyone essentially except judy and Um Judy closes out Steve and hers jointchecking account and takes all of the money and puts it into cashier's checks,and we find out that she gave it to five hundred thousand dollars to Henry,which is kind o left unsaid at the end of the episode. We don't really knowwhy and Oh we know why. We just don't knowwhat they're going to do with it: Yeah...

Butlike, I guess she feels guilty and she sheknows his struggling financially and that's how she can help them. Okay, andso the episode ends with Steve, explainingthat he was in the car when it all happened. He shows up a Gen's house andexplains all of that and Judy wants to jump in front of a car herself, becauseshe thinks that's somehow going to make things right or I don't know, she'sshe's spiraling at this point like her life is falling apart and jen ends upshooting seeve and she calls judy over and that's how the season endsgethere's a lot to happen in that episode, but I think I got it all. I'm like worried that they'r gind o make thesame mistake in the next season. You now what Miss Theyre nonlike they're notgoing to go to the police, Oh yeah, because in T v shows no one goes to thepolice whenis so annoying they actually should they should because she had beentalking to Um one of her neighbors earlier and her neighbor was like. Ifsomeone will leave your house, you can and like you, tell them to leave andthey won't leave, you can shoot them. Eno have a consequence. I don't knowTru. That is, I'm sure, depends what state you're in whatever but like. Ifeel like with her knowing that or thinking sheknows that she should go to the police plus if shehas raingcameras set up all around her house. There's video evidence of whathappened and it also records sound too see you can hear the whole conversation.My other question is: How did her kids, like? Maybe they did and we don't know,but how did her kids not wake up they're o they're, both back now andit's like I'm sure they would have heard a gunshot exactly? I mean I guessthat's left for season too. Okay, my questions, do you r? Do youthink that Judy is a sociopath? Definitely okay, and do you feel bad for her Um? Ifeel bad for her for the way that Stevehas manipulated her. I don't feellike she shouldn't be implicated in what she did sat like. I don't like. I think she was ina bad situation, but hit doesn't discount like what she did like she.She should have gone to the police and told them the actual truth, like shecoud tell them a truth about Steve, but she didn't link she should've. Sheshouldhave turned herself in and that would have been a better situation forher anyway MHM. So true, yeah yeah, I do kindo think she'sa sociopath mean she has no problem lying so easilyyeah, it's just like I on't know it does like come sece ond nature to herand even from the first episode you can see that she'sust like it's really easyfor her and that's like that, can be really concerning MHM, I'm a terribleliar. So there's that can't lio anything. I willlaugh and get really sweaty, but honestly, like I'm, really excitedto keep going like watch the second season of this. I think it's going tobe rely yeah, so do I. I don't really think this show was thatmuch of a comedy, though I yeah I mean try to lightenit up with like humor a Icalld a mystery. I wouldn't call it like what a ragic amony Fror, whatever yeahis't it like em, knives out yeah, but I guess they don't have like a categoryin the enemies for mystery. T V shows yeah. I think that if it were in adifferent category, it would have won Y MHM cool wow. I think we both reallyliked it. I'm super happy with this week. I think it was great Wev got our show for nextweek we're super prepared. If you want to follows SOM social media, you canfind us an insigrum and facebook how we never Podcastan on Winter Howa. Wenever we're alo you to. If you want to search us there and we'll see a nextweek. Yes, all right, bye, congratulations, O man it' the end ofour podcast. We hope we enjoyed listening howhave. We never seen thisbefore is produced by Isabel Baroon. The music is by Scott home. The poncastart is by Michael Beaumont over at monitor comics, and our social media isRon by law. ANDCOLA THANKS FOR LISTENING.

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