How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 2, Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Dead to Me: "Don't Be A Woman Who Blames The Woman."


In Season 2 Episode 6, Isabel and Lauren discuss Dead to Me.

Join us as we discuss Lauren's weird obsession with James Marsden, if Judy is really is a psychopath, and different ways of handling grief.

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art!

Thanks for listening!

Hi Everyone, welcome back to howhave we never seen this before? This week we discussed dead to me.Join us as we discuss Lauren's weird obsession with James Morrison, whether Judy isa sociopath and different ways of handling grief. This is a podcast where two bestfriends talk about movies they've never seen before. I'm Isabelle and I'm Lauren, and this is how have we never seen this before? So this weekwe're going to try something a little different. WE'RE gonna change up our structure,I guess. So we took some feedback and we're gonna try it out. Let us know what you think. Let's get right into the show,but Lauren has some fun facts before we begin. to Go ahead. Yeah, so, I don't know, I just wanted to kind of like introducethe show and give you a more like indepth look at the cast and,like some of the producers, because I think it's kind of interesting. Sothis is a Netflix series, Um, and it was also nominated for somany emmy's, not only the show but the actors. Yeah, but becauseit's technically considered a tragic comedy, which falls into the comedy genre, Ibelieve Um, Shit's creepy. It took all of the Emmy's for that,so it didn't win any, but it was still nominated. Good for Netflix. So Um, okay. So show was created by Liz Feldman, who'sa comedian, actress, writer, producer, essentially the Jack of all trades andShowbiz, which I think is really cool. How the show was createdby a woman. You could tell that it was created by a woman,you know. Yeah, we I also saw, I'm probably going to saythis, but I saw that will Farrell was a producer. Yeah, thatwas my next point. So also will Ferrell and Adam McKay. Adam McKaydirected anchorman produced the show, and so it makes sense that Christina applegate wasstarring in it, and I think that's like kind of cool. How Iwouldn't expect that from Will Ferrell and Adam McKay, honestly, and while Iwas researching all of this, I found out that Adam McKay was raised inPhilly and he goes. He went to the high school near my house.But Yeah, Oh, and Christina obligate is also a producer. So Ijust love the friendship and it's just so funny how, like have you everseen anchor man? Yeah, you wouldn't expect such like this is going tosound so offensive. You wouldn't expect such smart humor and a smart show from, yeah, from Will Ferrell and Adam McKay. But I guess they werejust producers. They probably didn't write any of the episodes. I mean,I don't know. I feel like they're probably like, like they know theiraudience, so that's why they like do that. But I feel like prettysmart people. Yeah, it just baffles me how they went from like Talladeganights to this show. Yeah, but I could see this coming from Christinaapplegate. She is a smart woman. I love her, so do i. While we're on the same page on so many things, we're really insync this week, guys. Yeah, it's honestly crazy. We were bothon. Well, know we weren't. I wasn't on top of my showwatching, but I did do it earlier in the day. I usually doit from like thirty pm to two am, and this time this time I didit from two PM to five and then seven s and all you onlyminorly procrastinated. This time it was really for me. Yeah, I actuallyyou guys should be proud of me. I actually space this one out overthe course of two days instead of the night before, so I had alittle bit more time to take in the show. We also plan what showwe're doing next week, but we're not telling you. So yeah, haha. So, also, the cast is like really amazing in this show. If you haven't seen it, which you should, Linda Cardinelli, orcar to car to Leeny from the right. That right. But yeah, hearme from I like know her from freaks and Geeks. Oh, Iknow her from the live action Scooby Doo. Oh, yeah, she also playsVelma. Yeah, but like she's in freaks and Geeks, which isan amazing show that was cut too short, which also has an incredible cast.But Fun of fact, her brother and freaks and Geeks is sweets andbones. I've been watching bones so much. But Anyway, fun fact. Neverget that out now. I figured that out last week, like finallyclicked in my brain. But also Christina...

...applicates, obviously in the show.Her and Winder the two main characters, and then James Marsden, James Morrison, is also in the show. You may know him from enchanted or Xmenor hair spray, live or not live, but like the movie version. Yeah, so good, so good. I Love James Morriston. We haveno choice but to stand. I feel like there's there can't be that manypeople that don't love James Morriston. I really hope he didn't do anything thatwould lead us to cancel him. But I think he's okay. I hope. Oh, he also did that Sonic, the hedgehog movie. I refuse usedto watch that. That I won't watch, but I know he wasin it. Should we do that next season? Please know. But yeah, so we can go through like a quick over of some of the castand then we're going to try and keep the summaries of the episode short.Just you like favorite moments or like reactions to like what we were reacting towhen it happened. And also, I kind of looked at all of thethemes from this show. I think it's good and I wouldn't down. Yeah, also, we decided to do season one of the show like we've beendoing with all the other shows. Um, so you probably have seen that already. So we're going into this assuming that you kind of know the basicpremise of the show. Yeah, and if not, like we're not.I guess there're spoilers, so spoiler alert, but there's still like a lot ofthings that we won't touch on. Yeah, apparently season two is insane. I want, I want to watch to watch it so bad. Ireally like this show. I thought it was so good I wanted to keepgoing at the end of it, but I had to rain myself in.Yeah, me too. I was like, if I keep going like then I'mgoing to want to talk about it and I don't want to make thisepisode two hours long. Yeah, okay, Um. So first up we haveJEN harding. She is pretty much I I would say she has alittle bit more screen time than her co Star. I don't know why ittook me so long to come to that Conyeah, that's where it's more abouther, I guess. Yeah, yeah, so she's played by Christina applegate.As we've mentioned, she is a realtor. She's kind of very notkind of. She's very uptight. It's extreme anger issues and the show kindof focuses on her dealing with the loss of her husband, Ted, andshe meditates by listening to heavy metal anything else you'd like to add to Jenharding? I don't think so. Like there's definitely like more to her thanthat, but I don't want to get into it yet. Yeah, butanger issues? Yeah, MMM, MMM MMM, I'm doing floor. IsYours? Okay. So then there's Judy. When we meet Judy she is dealingwith the loss of her fiance. I'll say this part just because ithappens in the first episode, but we find out that Judy didn't actually loseher fiance. They had broken up two months ago because she had been had. She had about five miscarriages and they just like kind of fell apart afterthat. So she's like she works at a retirement community, she's an artistand you kind of start to think she's like the logical liar. Yeah,I have some I have some questions that I'd like to ask you about that. Yeah, I'll get into those. Okay. Oh, I also thinkshe's a vegetarian. She like how to bring that up every time. Listen. As a vegetarian, I've been trained see the signs when someone else mightbe a vegetarian and probably is. Yeah, she she rejects Nick's soup. Shealso the Joe Right I thought that's just what she was upset. I'msorry. And then she also she fed the boys either beyond or impossible meetor Tofu or Satan, I don't really know. But yes, Vegetarian Queen. Okay, I guess I'll go next. So we have no the our otherposts? Well, Oh, yeah, is our other host, Lizabel.She's going to give the next Roun Um. So next we have SteveAkay, James Morriston. He's Hut,...

...he's very much alive, x fiance. He speaks Greek. Um, yeah, he's very handsome and very charming.And no, that is not subjective. That is an objective conclusion. Um, and she calls them charming. Yeah, okay, she said it, not me. Um. So, yeah, he is, but eat. There's more to them than meets C I. Yeah, it's about it. Yeah, I feel like there aren't really any other main characters. LikeJenner has two sons, Charlie and Henry, but she calls Henry Boop. Ilove it. I think it's really cute, Cutie. And there's alsoso they meet at like a grief group therapy session. So there's there's thosepeople and the head of the he's a pastor, but like he leads thethe session. I don't know his name, but he's name's Wayne. Oh,Wayne, there's a theme with me. I never know the Um but he'smy Chang's dad and clee. Oh my God, he looked familiar.Wow, that's funny. So there are just two. I've wrote down twoother characters that are like not as important. See how sorry, I just rememberedone. excited. Oh, I didn't write him down, but he'simportant to I love Abe. But if you want to talk about Abe,since you're so passionate about him, he he's an old man who lives inthe retirement community that Judy works at. He's just like he's got anger ishues too. He gets mad when he can't find a puzzle piece and it'slike right under the box. But he he's just really there for Judy andlike let's her talk to him about all of the problems and just really likedoesn't judge her for them but works through them with her, and also likeis there for her when Steve shows up or like at her job or somethingin this like you suck and lately I love baby's so great. Yeah,he is great. So the last two people that I think are kind ofimportant that will mention by name. One of them is nick. He isa former detective. He lost his police partner and he likes to take thingsslow with people. He's a very good guy, because, of course,mainstream media likes to paint tops as good people. HMM, sorry, won'tgo into that. But last but not least, we have a Christopher whois jens real estate partner. He is very religious and wants to get theminvolved with church and you'll see that religion. It's kind of like a reoccurring themethroughout the show. So I thought I mentioned that. Yeah, andJena is like fround the beginning. You can see the JEN's very against organizedrealist. So basically, a quick over review of episode we didn't even doan overview of the show really, but I'm mean, I feel like Ithink it's fine. Episode one introduces it all. Yeah, so a quickoverview of episode one. We meet JEN and Judy. They're both part ofthis grief Counsel Counseling Group that I mentioned, and Jen's husband was killed in ahit and run and I think it's important to say like one of thefirst things that they talked about at this like I keep reading the word thislike group is that Wayne says. Think about the F word, which forthem is forgiveness, and that's also like a really big theme in this show, I think. So keep that in the back of your mind. Andthere's also like definitely something off about Judy. From the second you meet here.There's something weird, and by the end of this episode we just findout what I had said before, that duty Dant I didn't die and itwas a result of like miscarriages in them just kind of falling apart after that. Going back, I have seen the first like three minutes of this showbefore. WHOA, you cheated. I changed, I know, but Idon't know why I stopped. Like I don't like I'm I'm so interested init now, like even in those first few minutes I was interested. Idon't know why I stopped before, but so I did like have that suspiciousfeeling towards judy already, but I like I sew as I saw. Iwas like I feel like I thought she was lying about the grief, whichI was right, not like completely like, but like her reasoning behind it.I also thought that she'd be like a stalker towards Jen. I know. Yeah, and I so this is...

...this is my exact note. Ifeel like judy did it, or Judy's going to be obsessed with Jen.HMM. And I was right. Yeah, I kind of knew that Judy wasthe one that killed Ted essentially beforehand. I don't know how I knew that, but somehow, like maybe I saw a spoiler somewhere or my momtold me because she watches the show, but I just knew. I don'tknow why. I'm not smarter than anyone or anything, but someone told mealong the way. Yeah, but that was kind of like my reaction.HMM. It was just like I really appreciated how in every episode, likeit was definitely a mystery and I really liked how there was kind of likea big drop at the end of every episode. It or like right beforethe end, and it made you want to keep going. Yeah, andI don't know, I really like that it wasn't like a complete it wasn'tlike a complete episode. It was like it wasn't like you could stop afterthat episode. You had to keep going and like, yeah, I didlike how they gave us a tiny piece to the puzzle throughout the whole show. Yeah, Um, I thought that was pretty smart. The only thingI didn't like about this episode was the spacing of it. I don't Iguess Um them. So Jen is a very up type person. She doesn'thave any friends. She doesn't like to let people into her life because shehas to have control over everything. But she seemingly lets judy in so quickly, and maybe it's like the grief, but she doesn't let any of herneighbors and she doesn't let anyone else in. Maybe it's because she knows that,she thinks that Judy's been through the same thing as her, but sheshe lets her in so quickly and they become friends and bond so fast andshe she gives her, she tells her so many deep secrets. So Ithought that that was kind of out of character for her. I enjoyed thespacing for the rest of the show, but it just seems like they becamefriends so fast, I think. Also, maybe it's because, like everyone elsein her life, they like her neighbors and everything. They can makeassumptions about them from like being close proximity, and Judy was kind of just thisseemingly random person who came up to her at like at the coffee stationat counseling and that was it, you know. Yeah, yeah, you'reright, like that could be a possibility to it's just like, especially afterfinding out that she lied about the reason why she was at the grief meetings, like she it was because of her miscarriages and not because of her fiancedying. It's just weird that you think that if someone crosses jen once likethat, she would she would be even more closed off. I think it'sbecause she had already like given given up, but like told her so much,like because they get really close, like she helps her fall asleep thatfirst night, like Jen like has in the sleeping and that she just liketalked to Jut until she falls asleep that first night. So I think likeshe doesn't want to give up, like really give up, that feeling oflike maybe I'll be okay. It's that they said it at one point.It's like the three minutes of hope, you know, and I think that'swhat it was at the beginning for her. Yeah, okay, I see that. Do you anything else for ever? Someone? I guess Um my lastthing that I was my last point that I was going to make is. It's just like you can tell that a smart woman wrote this script,because they say they sprinkle in aspects of feminism and they don't make it abig deal, they just they normalize it. So when Jen says, she saysa lot of things, like when talking about the miscarriage. Well,I believe it was an actual thing, not a for Republicans asking, butUm, and I think that's I really appreciate how the show just incorporates likea feminist way of speaking and doesn't draw attention to it or make it abig deal. It just normalizes it in conversation. Yeah, it was likeit was super casual. They said it, they laugh and they just kept goingand that happens throughout the whole show like that. That's just an example. Yeah, so, yeah, like that. So an episode two,Steve Sells his house and and JEN is the one selling his house, Um, and she thinks it'll help judy move on. And now judy is livingwith Jen and her kids hate her, essentially, and it basically follows thatwhole saga. And we also find out in this episode that Jen has hugeanger issues. So there's this like corvat or whatever driving around speeding and shedecides to vandalize the car. And Yeah, that that's basically it. Yeah,and the big revealed the end of this episode is that Steve was inthe car when they hit Jen's husband.

So it's like Oh, like who, like who could be like really implicated in like what happens? Yeah,yeah, so they're in it together. Yeah, I didn't really have muchon this episode. This like kind of like gave me those like judy mightbe a stalker kind of vibes, because Steve gives her restraining order to atone point, but he takes it back. Yeah, that was also kind ofweird. how He seems to want nothing to do with her until theyhave like a romantic rendezvous. I don't get it. I don't know whyhe like I feel like it could have been fine if he never got involvedagain. You know, then, yeah, I think that's like kind of anepisode. Two is not like a Philip eppisode, but there wasn't likea big you know. Yeah, but I think episode three was really important. So we see more about Jen's anger issues in this episode, but basicallyit surrounds US memorial that she decides to do for her husband. On hisbirthday, mostly out of spite for her motherinlaw. But basically they do,like they write notes on a balloon or write notes on a piece of paper, roll it up and put it in a balloon and like release into thesky. And for during this judy gets arrested because she takes blame for smashingthis corvette. So I think that really solidifies her friendship, just because shereally like took a bullet for her because, like, her kids were there,her mother inlaw was there and just like she didn't like want that tohappen to her on this like memorial for her husband. We also find out, like as the balloon comes back, like the one one not, herson wrote was about this game that him and his dad used to play andhe like MSS playing it with him. So Jen goes online. It's like, Hey, it's your mom, I'll try and play with you because,like she knows, it'll mean a lot to him. But while she's onthere, the account is her husband's account and he saw she gets a messagefrom someone who is like, oh my Gosh, I've missed you, likewhen can I see you again? It's her husband was cheating on her.HMM, but basically I really liked that in this episode in particular, andlike and for all of them, that the show is a mystery. Butit's also a really good discussion about grief and like how you how different peoplehandle that, and also like going to therapy. Also, like like Jen'slike a very close off person, but she like took a step to goto grief counseling, which I think is is pretty cool. And Yeah,I think I don't know, I think I could have like oddly learned alot from this show when I was younger and like from like I don't Idon't even know death well, so like just like learning house from people managethe degree. I think it's interesting. Yeah, because I think that everyone, depending on what you go through and your relationship to the person, reactsdifferently and you could be really angry, really depressed, and the show kindof covers it and makes it tells you that it's okay to feel that wayand here are some ways to handle it, here's some ways to not handle it. Yeah, they're murdering people. Yeah. Also, my one question, and I don't you probably don't have the answer to this, but likehow did judy find out that Jen was the wife of the guy who shehit. Like she shows up at this man a funeral to I'd like.I just don't understand how she was able to so quickly draw the connection because, like as you find out that they didn't go back to see who itwas I got hit. HMM, it probably made the news and there isprobably an obituary. So I'm assuming she looked up hit and run accidents inthe news and found that or like looked looked up the police records. Mypoint for this episode was that at the end of the episode you find outthat Ted was cheating on Jen through this video game, which is just kindof funny. Um and UM. The show kind of shows you that noteverything is always what it seems like. There's no such thing as a perfectfamily and Jen and Ted's marriage was definitely less than perfect, despite the theimage that it gives off. Um and so, yeah, the more yousee, the more you get a glimpse into their marriage and you see thatTed's not exactly the best husband. Jen's on actually the best wife. Themore you see, I guess judy kind of kind of thinking that it wasn'ta bad thing that he died yeah, it's like weird. I kind ofthink that Judy's a sociopath and in a...

...sense, yeah, I was gonnaask you, like you're all there are some like points that I wanted tobring up the like future episodes, and I wanted to ask you if youlike think that she's a sociobath. There's a point in the next one thatI was like hmm, okay, okay, so should we get into the fourthepisode? Yeah, okay, so Um episode for Steve and Judy havebeen hooking up again. That's like kind of a big plot point. Butanother big plot point that's going on at the same time is Jen is tryingto figure out who this girl that her husband cheated on her with is,and so they go to this restaurant and they realized that Ted had told thisgirl, this really young girl who who thought that Ted was her boyfriend,that Jen was dead and died of breast cancer, and so of course jenis distraught and Jen says that she's glad he's dead, which kind of makesjudy smile creeply at the end of the episode. It was very weird.But what's kind of important about this episode is that Christina applegate actually did havea mess teck to me. She had breast cancer in two thousand and eightand that's like a big part of her life. She she talks about ita lot, and I thought that it was really important that they they tiedthat in because in the show Jen had a mess deck to me because hermom died of breast cancer and she that's kind of a big point because Tedafter she did that, didn't want anything to do with her sexually, whichis really upsetting. But yeah, yeah, I think they it's really the waythey tie that in is really important too, because later, later on, when she I guess she that's kind of was my point, but likeshe mentions that like he wouldn't touch her after that, and I think that'slike, at least from what I understand, like that's really scary for a lotof women. That's like that's something that could like just because they're tryingto stay alive and like be preventive or something like that. It could ruina marriage with something that you think like really will be there for you despitethat. I know it's awful. Yeah, like your marriage is ruined because you'redisgusting husband. Is Sad that you don't have two sacks of what couldbe cancerous fat on your chest? Are you kidding? It's just like likeat that point I was like that's not for maybe an episode or two,but I was like, wow, ted's kind of and even like after cheatedon hers, just like kind of like Ted Sucks. I Hate Ted.You never meet Ted, Ted. So he may be dead, but Ikind of hate him. Yeah, I kind of hate like all the charactersin this show. I love them, I love to hate them. Yeah, also problematic. The one part where I was like, oh, like, Judy's kind of crazy. Is like she like I get like kind ofwhy she did it, but she says to this girlfriend, she's like Ted'sdead. I'm his wife, and the way she kind of like it's notlike something Jen had asked her to do. It wasn't like it wasn't like shehad been saying. It's not like she just said that was his whitelike the girl who walked out, that's his wife. It was like I'mhis wife and that was so creepy. That's all right. Yeah. Oh, also, what I liked about this episode is that Um in the inthe morning, Steve Wakes up to a podcast. And could you imagine likewaking up to us? Like imagine that, like you wake up and it's Umlike yeah, I agree, it's like problematic. Like imagine way upto my voice saying that would be so fun my like I like that.But I also liked how, after the podcast starts playing, he jumps onhis trampoline. His legs like go whoo, like imagine that, but like jumpingon a chart, tramplaining alone. I'm talking about. It was sofunny. I loved it. Yeah, Steve is great, even though he'snot. Yeah, so episode five is they go to a grief retreat withtheir counseling group and basically it's kind of like a lesson. I'm like movingon from grief. That's really what I got from it. Is that,like Jen's like obviously upset about everything that she's just went on about her husband, but he she also like did lose him after them being together for almosttwenty years. So it's like her trying to find this new guy, andJudy also meeting Nick, who is there because he lost his partner in ashooting or something. Basically, something happen.

Oh right, JEN's like really upsetafter she doesn't end up like getting with this guy who's actually Kevin Haven, is shameless, yeah, which is like cool because like he's in theretoo. But she like goes to smoke a cigarette and that she's walking,she like drops them and then she almost gets hit by a car and it'slike a real awakening for her. She's like wow, I gotta like getmy life together be there for my kids, because they can't lose me too.And the last thing about the episode is the detective. So Judy Hooksup with Nick, who's the detective, and he she mentions the case andhe wants to investigate it. I don't know if he said that, butno, I didn't, but yeah, that's how they like really can't startinteracting with nick. They start he says he'll investigate because he's still on leave. HMM, yeah, yeah. So episode six, this one is kindof an important episode because it's all about religion. So I called them inthe Jay's, Jen and Judy. So the JAYS are looking at a shrinefor Ted on the side of the road and Jena is like, what isthis cross doing on in this shrine? Like why do they assume that I'ma Christian and she kind of becomes cynical about organized religion. And at thesame time nick is coming to investigate the case and we also find out thatCharlie, the Gensun, has been selling drugs at school and it turns outthat they were Ted drugs, his prescription pills. And Judy finds a nineyear the nine year old girl that found Ted's body on the side of theroad, and she finds this girl at Henry's choir recital and so jen basicallyrealizes that all her kids are losing it. They're not doing as well as theythought because Charlie selling drugs. Henry's freaking out at this recital, havinganger issues. Yeah, he clearly get that from his mom. Yeah,he had a huge outburst. So Um Chris, her realtor partner, says, why don't you take them to my church? And also he, Charlie, has to go to church because of his drug selling habit. It wasthe only way to avoid the police, and so they kind of get involvedin church. And the big reveal at the end of this episode is thatthe girl who Judy meets that found Ted's body comes over and gives jen someof the evidence that she took from the scene of the crime, which isthe headlight to Judy's car, and we owe. Another thing that happens isCharlie has a gun. Oh yeah, so someone happened in this episode.There was a lot going on. Like nick comes over to in his likepolice uniform to like scare Charlie's it just being like realizing what he did waswrong. But then he's like, I'm going to look through your bag formore drugs, but Charlie's like no, no, don't do that, andwhen he does, there's like an actual gun in his bag with the safetyoff, which is incredibly dangerous. Like that could have gone off at anytime if like anything in his bag like hit it wrong. So it's alsolike, I think at this was like also a lesson just to like lookout for your kids in times like this. Like yeah, definitely, and italso is kind of pro religion in this sense. Like maybe you,I wouldn't say it's pro religion. I think it's like pro giving your kidsthe ability to like decide if that's something they want and their life. Yeah, true, but also jen ends up getting more involved with the church.I think that the show kind of like teaches a lesson that, even ifyou don't exactly agree with everything that the church stands for and like or disagreewith organized religion, it's kind of Nice to have a community of people whowant to help you. Yeah, even if you dislike religion, which,like, you can agree with, disagree with, but like yourself personally.But I just think that's like maybe what the show is trying to tell usor show us. Yeah, I really appreciate how, like, even thoughJen was still like pretty close off, she allows Henry to be baptized andeverything. I think that's I don't know, I think that's important to give thekids a choice Lee, even if you don't believe in it, justlike supporting them and whatever their decision is. Yeah, exactly. So we alsofind out the end of the episode that her car is missing from thisstoage locker where she's been keeping it. So in episode seven, Judy goesto see about the car and it turns out that he's like breaking it apartso that no one can find it. And there's Jen like loses her jobbasically because her partner says because of her anger issues, it's really not working. Like she's scaring away clients and one...

...of those coins was the dad fromeven Stevens. Oh my God, I didn't even know that. Yeah,I the MOM was, or like the wife looks really familiar to but Ican't remember what she's from. But basically it's like kind of call for herto work on her anger so she can support her kids. Also, Abeis really there for Judy in this episode. I Love Abe, and we alsofind out that Ted, which is Jen's hus and, wasn't wearing runningshoes when she got when he died, which this the story was kind ofthat he had gone out from run late at night and got hit. Wedon't really know why he left at this point. We found it later,but it's like, oh, maybe he was going to meet someone, ormaybe he don't know, maybe it was something else, maybe he like jumpedin front of the car on purpose. There's also a thing about this timethat Judy and Steve went to a rock place and they took sacred rocks andlike that's like Judy's very like I feel like she might be Buddhist, butshe's I don't know, she's superstitious. Yeah, like she has crystals nextto her bed, but at the same time, she also keeps the crossthat Jen tried to throw out in the previous episode. Yeah, I don'treally know. She may just cut, she might she might just be spiritual. Yeah, but she's all superstitious about the rocks. Yeah, like JamesMorrison. Let this be a lesson to you. Never steal a rock froma waterfall because it nesses up the ecosystem and it will ruin your life.Yep, pretty much. Also, in this episode we get a James Morrisonsex scene. So, Oh yeah, we have no choice, but OhGod, I'm so eight Um at its sode. Eight, JEN is tryingto find the people who own the one thousand, nine hundred and sixty sixmust chang, and she's being sneaky with Judy and nick. She's basically goinginto other people's houses to appraise them because she's a realtor. But why wouldanyone let her into their house? Like that's how you get robbed, essentially. You know how, like real tea, real realty works, like do peoplelike normally do that? Just like go around be like Hey, yourhouse looks nice. If you're ever looking to sell, sometimes that'll happen.They'll do an appraisal, but usually they it's not so on the spot,and so I think that was just really kind of bizarre. But yeah,so they're doing that and judy finds out that James is art studio is onthe list of addresses that they should be checking out. James, yeah,Tkg Arts is James's art studio, like where he's Oh, James Morris,and sorry, Steve. Sorry, good Lord, I've been referring to himas James Mars. But Um yeah, so it's Steve's art studio. Andalso, at the same time, Judy Faints and keep starring up, whichleads her to believe that she might be pregnant, because she just thinks sheis. and Um Nick is trying to take care of her because she heassumes that they're not pregnant, because she thinks that they're exclusive and they haven'tbeen having sex. So he just thinks that she's sick. Not With Corona, though. This was corona, and so a lot happens in this episodetwo. But Jen kind of goes off the beaten path and decides to takematters into her own hands when they find out a guy who lives four blocksaway from the accident had to Duis and so she goes into his house andhe he's creepy, he kind of a soulter. She punches him in thenose and Judy finds out that she's not pregnant. She takes a pregnancy test, but then she leaves it sitting out for so long that it turns positive. So she thinks that she had a positive test and it basically ends withNick cracking the code essentially, and Judy breaking up with him because she's stillin love with Steve. Yeah, I didn't really have much on this episode. So, yeah, what the only thing I have? Oh, Oh, I do have some points to bring up actually. So, Oh,I think it's interesting how I feel like all of these problems could have beenavoided if Judy and Steve adopted a child. HMM, but none of this wouldhave happened, I think. Yeah, I feel like the whole trajectory oftheir lives would have been different. I don't know why they didn't doit. Oh, yeah, well, yeah, I don't know. Andthen the other point was, like, I think Judy's artwork is very interesting, if you want to like discuss that... all. Yeah, I meanthat kind of goes into episode nine too. Because in episode nine they're both liketrying to live out their dreams. Like at the very beginning Jenser wasgoing to dance classes and Judy's working on her art. Her art is likegenerally it's like little girls, like realistic is paintings of little girls, butthere's like a heart cut out of them, like around their like stomach areas,just like see through in a heart shape. I think it's just likeher. It's definitely how she cooked with her miscarriages. She is drawing thesechildren that she'll never have like part of their hearts, and it's like partof her heart is missing and nick found it kind of creepy. It islike a little like kind of creepy, but like like I can see whyshe's doing it. And like the last art pie she's working on is apainting of herself with the heart out of it, because she's really like nowshe knows she was never pregnant and she's really lost Steve and nick and there'sjust a lot going on. Yeah, and she's going through menopause. Yeah, and so in this episode Jenna struggling financially. She goes her mother inlaw for help, who she doesn't like. And Steve Visits Judy at work andthey're like arguing about like what happened the night that Ted died, andthen Abe was around the corner and he found out just like no A.I thought he was like something bad is going to happen right then, buthe was like like what do you want to do? And she was likeI want to tell the truth, and he says, like telling the truthwill set you free, and I really thought like Abe was like this guidinglight for her, which is like she really needed. So what she does, which is dumb but like I kind of get it, she goes tothe COPS and sells them that Steve is a money launder for these Greek businessmenand that's like why he knows Greek and whatever. So they're starting that investigationand then Jen's kids move out because they're mad at her. They go tothe mother in law and JEN so upset they're like outside drinking and I don'tknow what like brought it on, like I can't remember. least there's something. But Judy tells Jen that she's the one who hit Ted and Jon's likelike get out, like I never want to see you again. Obviously valivereaction. She goes to the nursing home to talk to Abe about it andAbees died and I was so upset. Like no, the best man inthis whole show. Yeah, I loved him. There was like just likea lot that one on that episode. Here's there's so much. Oh.What I thought was interesting about this episode is Laurna is talking about the butterflyeffect. HMM. I just thought like it's interesting saying how one incident createdall of this and the more that we find out about what happened, Um, it kind of shifts the blame on a bunch of different people. Itkind of shows that like its stems all the way back for years, thisone incident that changed everyone's lives forever. Like, I don't it's I don'tknow. I just thought that was interesting. They're like how to be a lotof things that fell into place for all of this to happen. Ithink that's kind of like yeah, like it even goes so far back towhen Jen was nineteen years old and her mom died of breast cancer. Likethere's so many incidents that that it. You can trace this all the wayback to even Jen's childhood. Yeah, that made this incident happen, whichkind of like makes you think a little bit about fate. And Yeah,another thing is why? So I had a question. So Judy's art cango for up to Twentyzeros that I was like, wow, it's that true, because I know that the art studio place was just a front for theGreek mafia business Um. But it's her art really worth that much? Ifso, why can she not support herself financially? I think she can,like artist been really the price, and work at whatever they want to like, whatever they think it's worth. I think an any gallery will be up, up sold to cover gallery costs as well. I mean, I don'tknow. I don't know if she ever actually sold the piece of art.That might be why she gets support herself financially, but she also might justlike, really like what she does if she has like sold on lot art. Yeah, but also at the same time, you if no one's buyingyour art, you might want to lower your price. It might have beenSteve. He might have set them. Yeah, he seems very controlling overher. So another thing that I don't...

...really like is Dudy has free will. She could have very well turned herself in at the beginning of all ofthis. Yes, of course Steve was like no, can't look back.Judy very well could have herself. Just because she was convinced by Steve notto doesn't mean she's a better person than him. I think her like thing, like I think, like Steve manipulated her, but like her thing,like to make it right. was like, and she explains it. She's likeI thought, like by becoming your friend, I could like be therefor you and like make it okay, like that that's right, or anythinglike. If you hit someone, please stay at the scene and turn yourselfin. But I think that's kind of where her justification was for that.Yeah, I mean, I guess everyone just blames Steve For this incident thathappened, but Steve wasn't behind the wheel. Steve didn't ultimately make the decision notto turn back like jet Judy could have easily. She was the onewith steering. She could have turned around and gone back to the crime calledthe police. Maybe TEB would be alive. But she was scared. I thinkshe was scared of what Steve would do to her. I mean,yeah, but I don't know. He connections with the Greek Mafia. Also, at the same time, he never, he never hurt her. You canbe pretty emotionally abusive and clearly financially as well. I don't know.I just think that it was her decision to make and that Steve isn't allto blame for this. Yes, he's on a blame, but I don'tthink it's that simple. Judy's not that Independent. She like, she isdrunk, like she can't like anything she does. She's still like with Steve, you know. Yeah, but also, at the same time she has leverageover Steve. She's always had leverage over Steve. She knew about hisconnections and still she didn't think she was strong enough or that, and hedidn't think she was strong enough to use that against him. She's thought hehad enough power over him, or she had enough power over her like that. She would never do that because she was so in love with him.Yeah, but you can't use love as an excuse to try and get awaywith murder. No, I know, but like, that's what he Ithink he assumed that she would never, like betray him like that because shewas so dependent on him. I guess us, I mean your dependence onsomeone still can't really justify your actions. You can't call the by it's justwhy she did it. She like, she just can't. She's not independentat all. Yeah, I see, she had jen, I guess.I mean, like, what I'm saying is that, Everon solely blame Stevefor all of this, like he's an awful person. He is manipulative,but also, at the same time, I think that just because Judy didwhat she did for a reason doesn't make it any better. No, itdoes at all better, but I think that's why she did what she did. HMM, I don't know, I just kind of hate judy a littlebit. They all suck. Yeah, I mean I like I think thatJen is the way she is because of what what happened to Ted. Ithink that Judy's to blame for that and she kind of makes herself seem soinnocent. I see through that. Yeah, Jen doesn't. She's not. Jendoesn't get the whole picture like we do. I know. I justthink that JEN is a master miniful. Judy is a master manipulator. Yeah, I mean she is. Okay, we can go into the last episode. Yeah, so everyone's lives are falling apart. Essentially Um Jen doesn't tellanyone about judy until she turns she doesn't tell anyone in her life about judy, but jen ends up turning judy into the police and the police don't reallydo anything about it it because there's an investigation on something bigger at hand,which is James Marsden, Steve being tied to the mafia, and Jen setsup a lot of cameras in her house and outside of her house. Judyisn't really supposed to be around any of them, essentially, and she showsup to Henry's church recital practice and gives her him gives Henry a bird thatssupposed to be representative of Ted from previous episodes. And Jen is trying tomake new friends because she doesn't really have any and she can't really get alongwith anyone, essentially, except Judy. And Judy Closes Out Steve and hersjoint checking account and takes all of the money and puts it into cashier's checksand we find out that she gave it to five hundred thousand dollars to Henry, which is kind of left unsaid at the end of the episode. Wedon't really know why. and Oh we know why. We just don't knowwhat they're gonna do with it. Yeah,...

...but, like, I guess shefeels guilty and she she knows he's struggling financially and that's how she canhelp them. Okay. And so the episode ends with Steve Explaining that hewas in the car when it all happened. He shows up at JEN's house andit explains all of that, and Judy wants to jump in front ofa car herself because she thinks that's somehow going to make things right or Idon't know. She's spiraling at this point, like her life is falling apart,and JEN ends up shooting Steve and she calls judy over and that's howthe season ends. Yeah, there's a lot that happened in that episode,but I think I got it all. I'm like worried that they're couldn't makethe same mistake in the next season. You know what we say? AreNot going to like they're not going to go to the police. Oh Yeah, because in TV shows no one goes to the police when so annoying.They actually should. They should because she had been talking to one of herneighbors earlier and her neighbor was like, if someone will leave your house,you can and like you tell them to leave and they won't leave, youcan shoot them and not have a consequence. I don't know to that is,I'm sure depends what stay here and whatever. But like, I feellike with her knowing that, or thinking she knows that, she should goto the police. Plus, if she has ring cameras set up all aroundher house, there's video evidence of what happened and it also records sound tosee you can hear the whole conversation. My other question is, how didher kids like, maybe they did and we don't know, but how didher kids not wake up? They're they're both act now and it's like I'msure they would have heard a gunshot exactly. I mean, I guess that's leftfor season two. Yeah, okay. My questions to you are, doyou think that Judy is a sociopath? Definitely, okay, and do youfeel bad for her? Um, I feel bad for her for theway that Steve is manipulated her. I don't feel like she shouldn't be implicatedin what she did, is it? Like? I don't like. Ithink she was in a bad situation. But that doesn't discount like what shedid. Like she she should have gone to the police and told them thatthe actual truth. Like she did tell them a truth about Steve, butshe didn't like she should have. She should have turned herself in, andthat would have been a better situation for her anyway. HMM, so true. Yeah, yeah, I do kind of think she's a sociopath. Shehas no problem lying so easily. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know, it does like come second nature to her, and even from thefirst episode you can see that she's such like it's really easy for her,and that's like that can be really concerning. HMM, I'm a terrible liar.So, oh my, there's that. Can't about anything. I will laughand get really sweaty. But honestly, like I'm really excited to keep going, like watch the second season of this. I think it's going tobe really good. Yeah, so do I. I don't really think thisshow was, um, that much of a comedy, though. I.Yeah, I mean they they try to light it up with like humor.As I call it a mystery. I wouldn't call it, like what aproject comedy. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, it's kind of like knives out.Yeah, but I guess they don't have like a category in the emmysfor mystery TV shows. Yeah, I think that if it were in adifferent category it would have won. Cool. Yeah, well, I think weboth really liked it. Yeah, I'm super happy with this week.I think it was great. We got our show for next week. We'resuper prepared. If you want to follow us on social media, you canfind us on instagram and facebook at how we never podcast and on twitter athow we never. We're also on Youtube if you want to search us there, and we'll see you next week. Yes, all right by hey,congratulations, you've made it to the end of our podcast. We hope youenjoyed listening. How have we never seen this before is produced by is bomarone. The music is by Scott Holmes. The podcast art is by Michael Beaumontover at monitor comics, and our social media is run by Lauren Coola.Thanks for listening.

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