How Have We Never Seen This Before?
How Have We Never Seen This Before?

Season 2, Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Dead to Me: "Don't Be A Woman Who Blames The Woman."


In Season 2 Episode 6, Isabel and Lauren discuss Dead to Me.

Join us as we discuss Lauren's weird obsession with James Marsden, if Judy is really is a psychopath, and different ways of handling grief.

If you want more from How Have We Never Seen This Before, feel free to subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and give us a follow on Instagram at @howhaveweneverpodcast!

Also, shout out to Michael Beaumont @monitorcomics for our podcast art!

Thanks for listening!

Hi Everyone, welcome back to how have we never seen this before? This week we discussed dead to me. Join us as we discuss Lauren's weird obsession with James Morrison, whether Judy is a sociopath and different ways of handling grief. This is a podcast where two best friends talk about movies they've never seen before. I'm Isabelle and I'm Lauren, and this is how have we never seen this before? So this week we're going to try something a little different. WE'RE gonna change up our structure, I guess. So we took some feedback and we're gonna try it out. Let us know what you think. Let's get right into the show, but Lauren has some fun facts before we begin. to Go ahead. Yeah, so, I don't know, I just wanted to kind of like introduce the show and give you a more like indepth look at the cast and, like some of the producers, because I think it's kind of interesting. So this is a Netflix series, Um, and it was also nominated for so many emmy's, not only the show but the actors. Yeah, but because it's technically considered a tragic comedy, which falls into the comedy genre, I believe Um, Shit's creepy. It took all of the Emmy's for that, so it didn't win any, but it was still nominated. Good for Netflix. So Um, okay. So show was created by Liz Feldman, who's a comedian, actress, writer, producer, essentially the Jack of all trades and Showbiz, which I think is really cool. How the show was created by a woman. You could tell that it was created by a woman, you know. Yeah, we I also saw, I'm probably going to say this, but I saw that will Farrell was a producer. Yeah, that was my next point. So also will Ferrell and Adam McKay. Adam McKay directed anchorman produced the show, and so it makes sense that Christina applegate was starring in it, and I think that's like kind of cool. How I wouldn't expect that from Will Ferrell and Adam McKay, honestly, and while I was researching all of this, I found out that Adam McKay was raised in Philly and he goes. He went to the high school near my house. But Yeah, Oh, and Christina obligate is also a producer. So I just love the friendship and it's just so funny how, like have you ever seen anchor man? Yeah, you wouldn't expect such like this is going to sound so offensive. You wouldn't expect such smart humor and a smart show from, yeah, from Will Ferrell and Adam McKay. But I guess they were just producers. They probably didn't write any of the episodes. I mean, I don't know. I feel like they're probably like, like they know their audience, so that's why they like do that. But I feel like pretty smart people. Yeah, it just baffles me how they went from like Talladega nights to this show. Yeah, but I could see this coming from Christina applegate. She is a smart woman. I love her, so do i. While we're on the same page on so many things, we're really in sync this week, guys. Yeah, it's honestly crazy. We were both on. Well, know we weren't. I wasn't on top of my show watching, but I did do it earlier in the day. I usually do it from like thirty pm to two am, and this time this time I did it from two PM to five and then seven s and all you only minorly procrastinated. This time it was really for me. Yeah, I actually you guys should be proud of me. I actually space this one out over the course of two days instead of the night before, so I had a little bit more time to take in the show. We also plan what show we're doing next week, but we're not telling you. So yeah, ha ha. So, also, the cast is like really amazing in this show. If you haven't seen it, which you should, Linda Cardinelli, or car to car to Leeny from the right. That right. But yeah, hear me from I like know her from freaks and Geeks. Oh, I know her from the live action Scooby Doo. Oh, yeah, she also plays Velma. Yeah, but like she's in freaks and Geeks, which is an amazing show that was cut too short, which also has an incredible cast. But Fun of fact, her brother and freaks and Geeks is sweets and bones. I've been watching bones so much. But Anyway, fun fact. Never get that out now. I figured that out last week, like finally clicked in my brain. But also Christina...

...applicates, obviously in the show. Her and Winder the two main characters, and then James Marsden, James Morrison, is also in the show. You may know him from enchanted or Xmen or hair spray, live or not live, but like the movie version. Yeah, so good, so good. I Love James Morriston. We have no choice but to stand. I feel like there's there can't be that many people that don't love James Morriston. I really hope he didn't do anything that would lead us to cancel him. But I think he's okay. I hope. Oh, he also did that Sonic, the hedgehog movie. I refuse used to watch that. That I won't watch, but I know he was in it. Should we do that next season? Please know. But yeah, so we can go through like a quick over of some of the cast and then we're going to try and keep the summaries of the episode short. Just you like favorite moments or like reactions to like what we were reacting to when it happened. And also, I kind of looked at all of the themes from this show. I think it's good and I wouldn't down. Yeah, also, we decided to do season one of the show like we've been doing with all the other shows. Um, so you probably have seen that already. So we're going into this assuming that you kind of know the basic premise of the show. Yeah, and if not, like we're not. I guess there're spoilers, so spoiler alert, but there's still like a lot of things that we won't touch on. Yeah, apparently season two is insane. I want, I want to watch to watch it so bad. I really like this show. I thought it was so good I wanted to keep going at the end of it, but I had to rain myself in. Yeah, me too. I was like, if I keep going like then I'm going to want to talk about it and I don't want to make this episode two hours long. Yeah, okay, Um. So first up we have JEN harding. She is pretty much I I would say she has a little bit more screen time than her co Star. I don't know why it took me so long to come to that Conyeah, that's where it's more about her, I guess. Yeah, yeah, so she's played by Christina applegate. As we've mentioned, she is a realtor. She's kind of very not kind of. She's very uptight. It's extreme anger issues and the show kind of focuses on her dealing with the loss of her husband, Ted, and she meditates by listening to heavy metal anything else you'd like to add to Jen harding? I don't think so. Like there's definitely like more to her than that, but I don't want to get into it yet. Yeah, but anger issues? Yeah, MMM, MMM MMM, I'm doing floor. Is Yours? Okay. So then there's Judy. When we meet Judy she is dealing with the loss of her fiance. I'll say this part just because it happens in the first episode, but we find out that Judy didn't actually lose her fiance. They had broken up two months ago because she had been had. She had about five miscarriages and they just like kind of fell apart after that. So she's like she works at a retirement community, she's an artist and you kind of start to think she's like the logical liar. Yeah, I have some I have some questions that I'd like to ask you about that. Yeah, I'll get into those. Okay. Oh, I also think she's a vegetarian. She like how to bring that up every time. Listen. As a vegetarian, I've been trained see the signs when someone else might be a vegetarian and probably is. Yeah, she she rejects Nick's soup. She also the Joe Right I thought that's just what she was upset. I'm sorry. And then she also she fed the boys either beyond or impossible meet or Tofu or Satan, I don't really know. But yes, Vegetarian Queen. Okay, I guess I'll go next. So we have no the our other posts? Well, Oh, yeah, is our other host, Lizabel. She's going to give the next Roun Um. So next we have Steve Akay, James Morriston. He's Hut,...

...he's very much alive, x fiance. He speaks Greek. Um, yeah, he's very handsome and very charming. And no, that is not subjective. That is an objective conclusion. Um, and she calls them charming. Yeah, okay, she said it, not me. Um. So, yeah, he is, but eat. There's more to them than meets C I. Yeah, it's about it. Yeah, I feel like there aren't really any other main characters. Like Jenner has two sons, Charlie and Henry, but she calls Henry Boop. I love it. I think it's really cute, Cutie. And there's also so they meet at like a grief group therapy session. So there's there's those people and the head of the he's a pastor, but like he leads the the session. I don't know his name, but he's name's Wayne. Oh, Wayne, there's a theme with me. I never know the Um but he's my Chang's dad and clee. Oh my God, he looked familiar. Wow, that's funny. So there are just two. I've wrote down two other characters that are like not as important. See how sorry, I just remembered one. excited. Oh, I didn't write him down, but he's important to I love Abe. But if you want to talk about Abe, since you're so passionate about him, he he's an old man who lives in the retirement community that Judy works at. He's just like he's got anger is hues too. He gets mad when he can't find a puzzle piece and it's like right under the box. But he he's just really there for Judy and like let's her talk to him about all of the problems and just really like doesn't judge her for them but works through them with her, and also like is there for her when Steve shows up or like at her job or something in this like you suck and lately I love baby's so great. Yeah, he is great. So the last two people that I think are kind of important that will mention by name. One of them is nick. He is a former detective. He lost his police partner and he likes to take things slow with people. He's a very good guy, because, of course, mainstream media likes to paint tops as good people. HMM, sorry, won't go into that. But last but not least, we have a Christopher who is jens real estate partner. He is very religious and wants to get them involved with church and you'll see that religion. It's kind of like a reoccurring theme throughout the show. So I thought I mentioned that. Yeah, and Jena is like fround the beginning. You can see the JEN's very against organized realist. So basically, a quick over review of episode we didn't even do an overview of the show really, but I'm mean, I feel like I think it's fine. Episode one introduces it all. Yeah, so a quick overview of episode one. We meet JEN and Judy. They're both part of this grief Counsel Counseling Group that I mentioned, and Jen's husband was killed in a hit and run and I think it's important to say like one of the first things that they talked about at this like I keep reading the word this like group is that Wayne says. Think about the F word, which for them is forgiveness, and that's also like a really big theme in this show, I think. So keep that in the back of your mind. And there's also like definitely something off about Judy. From the second you meet here. There's something weird, and by the end of this episode we just find out what I had said before, that duty Dant I didn't die and it was a result of like miscarriages in them just kind of falling apart after that. Going back, I have seen the first like three minutes of this show before. WHOA, you cheated. I changed, I know, but I don't know why I stopped. Like I don't like I'm I'm so interested in it now, like even in those first few minutes I was interested. I don't know why I stopped before, but so I did like have that suspicious feeling towards judy already, but I like I sew as I saw. I was like I feel like I thought she was lying about the grief, which I was right, not like completely like, but like her reasoning behind it. I also thought that she'd be like a stalker towards Jen. I know. Yeah, and I so this is...

...this is my exact note. I feel like judy did it, or Judy's going to be obsessed with Jen. HMM. And I was right. Yeah, I kind of knew that Judy was the one that killed Ted essentially beforehand. I don't know how I knew that, but somehow, like maybe I saw a spoiler somewhere or my mom told me because she watches the show, but I just knew. I don't know why. I'm not smarter than anyone or anything, but someone told me along the way. Yeah, but that was kind of like my reaction. HMM. It was just like I really appreciated how in every episode, like it was definitely a mystery and I really liked how there was kind of like a big drop at the end of every episode. It or like right before the end, and it made you want to keep going. Yeah, and I don't know, I really like that it wasn't like a complete it wasn't like a complete episode. It was like it wasn't like you could stop after that episode. You had to keep going and like, yeah, I did like how they gave us a tiny piece to the puzzle throughout the whole show. Yeah, Um, I thought that was pretty smart. The only thing I didn't like about this episode was the spacing of it. I don't I guess Um them. So Jen is a very up type person. She doesn't have any friends. She doesn't like to let people into her life because she has to have control over everything. But she seemingly lets judy in so quickly, and maybe it's like the grief, but she doesn't let any of her neighbors and she doesn't let anyone else in. Maybe it's because she knows that, she thinks that Judy's been through the same thing as her, but she she lets her in so quickly and they become friends and bond so fast and she she gives her, she tells her so many deep secrets. So I thought that that was kind of out of character for her. I enjoyed the spacing for the rest of the show, but it just seems like they became friends so fast, I think. Also, maybe it's because, like everyone else in her life, they like her neighbors and everything. They can make assumptions about them from like being close proximity, and Judy was kind of just this seemingly random person who came up to her at like at the coffee station at counseling and that was it, you know. Yeah, yeah, you're right, like that could be a possibility to it's just like, especially after finding out that she lied about the reason why she was at the grief meetings, like she it was because of her miscarriages and not because of her fiance dying. It's just weird that you think that if someone crosses jen once like that, she would she would be even more closed off. I think it's because she had already like given given up, but like told her so much, like because they get really close, like she helps her fall asleep that first night, like Jen like has in the sleeping and that she just like talked to Jut until she falls asleep that first night. So I think like she doesn't want to give up, like really give up, that feeling of like maybe I'll be okay. It's that they said it at one point. It's like the three minutes of hope, you know, and I think that's what it was at the beginning for her. Yeah, okay, I see that. Do you anything else for ever? Someone? I guess Um my last thing that I was my last point that I was going to make is. It's just like you can tell that a smart woman wrote this script, because they say they sprinkle in aspects of feminism and they don't make it a big deal, they just they normalize it. So when Jen says, she says a lot of things, like when talking about the miscarriage. Well, I believe it was an actual thing, not a for Republicans asking, but Um, and I think that's I really appreciate how the show just incorporates like a feminist way of speaking and doesn't draw attention to it or make it a big deal. It just normalizes it in conversation. Yeah, it was like it was super casual. They said it, they laugh and they just kept going and that happens throughout the whole show like that. That's just an example. Yeah, so, yeah, like that. So an episode two, Steve Sells his house and and JEN is the one selling his house, Um, and she thinks it'll help judy move on. And now judy is living with Jen and her kids hate her, essentially, and it basically follows that whole saga. And we also find out in this episode that Jen has huge anger issues. So there's this like corvat or whatever driving around speeding and she decides to vandalize the car. And Yeah, that that's basically it. Yeah, and the big revealed the end of this episode is that Steve was in the car when they hit Jen's husband.

So it's like Oh, like who, like who could be like really implicated in like what happens? Yeah, yeah, so they're in it together. Yeah, I didn't really have much on this episode. This like kind of like gave me those like judy might be a stalker kind of vibes, because Steve gives her restraining order to at one point, but he takes it back. Yeah, that was also kind of weird. how He seems to want nothing to do with her until they have like a romantic rendezvous. I don't get it. I don't know why he like I feel like it could have been fine if he never got involved again. You know, then, yeah, I think that's like kind of an episode. Two is not like a Philip eppisode, but there wasn't like a big you know. Yeah, but I think episode three was really important. So we see more about Jen's anger issues in this episode, but basically it surrounds US memorial that she decides to do for her husband. On his birthday, mostly out of spite for her motherinlaw. But basically they do, like they write notes on a balloon or write notes on a piece of paper, roll it up and put it in a balloon and like release into the sky. And for during this judy gets arrested because she takes blame for smashing this corvette. So I think that really solidifies her friendship, just because she really like took a bullet for her because, like, her kids were there, her mother inlaw was there and just like she didn't like want that to happen to her on this like memorial for her husband. We also find out, like as the balloon comes back, like the one one not, her son wrote was about this game that him and his dad used to play and he like MSS playing it with him. So Jen goes online. It's like, Hey, it's your mom, I'll try and play with you because, like she knows, it'll mean a lot to him. But while she's on there, the account is her husband's account and he saw she gets a message from someone who is like, oh my Gosh, I've missed you, like when can I see you again? It's her husband was cheating on her. HMM, but basically I really liked that in this episode in particular, and like and for all of them, that the show is a mystery. But it's also a really good discussion about grief and like how you how different people handle that, and also like going to therapy. Also, like like Jen's like a very close off person, but she like took a step to go to grief counseling, which I think is is pretty cool. And Yeah, I think I don't know, I think I could have like oddly learned a lot from this show when I was younger and like from like I don't I don't even know death well, so like just like learning house from people manage the degree. I think it's interesting. Yeah, because I think that everyone, depending on what you go through and your relationship to the person, reacts differently and you could be really angry, really depressed, and the show kind of covers it and makes it tells you that it's okay to feel that way and here are some ways to handle it, here's some ways to not handle it. Yeah, they're murdering people. Yeah. Also, my one question, and I don't you probably don't have the answer to this, but like how did judy find out that Jen was the wife of the guy who she hit. Like she shows up at this man a funeral to I'd like. I just don't understand how she was able to so quickly draw the connection because, like as you find out that they didn't go back to see who it was I got hit. HMM, it probably made the news and there is probably an obituary. So I'm assuming she looked up hit and run accidents in the news and found that or like looked looked up the police records. My point for this episode was that at the end of the episode you find out that Ted was cheating on Jen through this video game, which is just kind of funny. Um and UM. The show kind of shows you that not everything is always what it seems like. There's no such thing as a perfect family and Jen and Ted's marriage was definitely less than perfect, despite the the image that it gives off. Um and so, yeah, the more you see, the more you get a glimpse into their marriage and you see that Ted's not exactly the best husband. Jen's on actually the best wife. The more you see, I guess judy kind of kind of thinking that it wasn't a bad thing that he died yeah, it's like weird. I kind of think that Judy's a sociopath and in a...

...sense, yeah, I was gonna ask you, like you're all there are some like points that I wanted to bring up the like future episodes, and I wanted to ask you if you like think that she's a sociobath. There's a point in the next one that I was like hmm, okay, okay, so should we get into the fourth episode? Yeah, okay, so Um episode for Steve and Judy have been hooking up again. That's like kind of a big plot point. But another big plot point that's going on at the same time is Jen is trying to figure out who this girl that her husband cheated on her with is, and so they go to this restaurant and they realized that Ted had told this girl, this really young girl who who thought that Ted was her boyfriend, that Jen was dead and died of breast cancer, and so of course jen is distraught and Jen says that she's glad he's dead, which kind of makes judy smile creeply at the end of the episode. It was very weird. But what's kind of important about this episode is that Christina applegate actually did have a mess teck to me. She had breast cancer in two thousand and eight and that's like a big part of her life. She she talks about it a lot, and I thought that it was really important that they they tied that in because in the show Jen had a mess deck to me because her mom died of breast cancer and she that's kind of a big point because Ted after she did that, didn't want anything to do with her sexually, which is really upsetting. But yeah, yeah, I think they it's really the way they tie that in is really important too, because later, later on, when she I guess she that's kind of was my point, but like she mentions that like he wouldn't touch her after that, and I think that's like, at least from what I understand, like that's really scary for a lot of women. That's like that's something that could like just because they're trying to stay alive and like be preventive or something like that. It could ruin a marriage with something that you think like really will be there for you despite that. I know it's awful. Yeah, like your marriage is ruined because you're disgusting husband. Is Sad that you don't have two sacks of what could be cancerous fat on your chest? Are you kidding? It's just like like at that point I was like that's not for maybe an episode or two, but I was like, wow, ted's kind of and even like after cheated on hers, just like kind of like Ted Sucks. I Hate Ted. You never meet Ted, Ted. So he may be dead, but I kind of hate him. Yeah, I kind of hate like all the characters in this show. I love them, I love to hate them. Yeah, also problematic. The one part where I was like, oh, like, Judy's kind of crazy. Is like she like I get like kind of why she did it, but she says to this girlfriend, she's like Ted's dead. I'm his wife, and the way she kind of like it's not like something Jen had asked her to do. It wasn't like it wasn't like she had been saying. It's not like she just said that was his white like the girl who walked out, that's his wife. It was like I'm his wife and that was so creepy. That's all right. Yeah. Oh, also, what I liked about this episode is that Um in the in the morning, Steve Wakes up to a podcast. And could you imagine like waking up to us? Like imagine that, like you wake up and it's Um like yeah, I agree, it's like problematic. Like imagine way up to my voice saying that would be so fun my like I like that. But I also liked how, after the podcast starts playing, he jumps on his trampoline. His legs like go whoo, like imagine that, but like jumping on a chart, tramplaining alone. I'm talking about. It was so funny. I loved it. Yeah, Steve is great, even though he's not. Yeah, so episode five is they go to a grief retreat with their counseling group and basically it's kind of like a lesson. I'm like moving on from grief. That's really what I got from it. Is that, like Jen's like obviously upset about everything that she's just went on about her husband, but he she also like did lose him after them being together for almost twenty years. So it's like her trying to find this new guy, and Judy also meeting Nick, who is there because he lost his partner in a shooting or something. Basically, something happen.

Oh right, JEN's like really upset after she doesn't end up like getting with this guy who's actually Kevin Haven, is shameless, yeah, which is like cool because like he's in there too. But she like goes to smoke a cigarette and that she's walking, she like drops them and then she almost gets hit by a car and it's like a real awakening for her. She's like wow, I gotta like get my life together be there for my kids, because they can't lose me too. And the last thing about the episode is the detective. So Judy Hooks up with Nick, who's the detective, and he she mentions the case and he wants to investigate it. I don't know if he said that, but no, I didn't, but yeah, that's how they like really can't start interacting with nick. They start he says he'll investigate because he's still on leave. HMM, yeah, yeah. So episode six, this one is kind of an important episode because it's all about religion. So I called them in the Jay's, Jen and Judy. So the JAYS are looking at a shrine for Ted on the side of the road and Jena is like, what is this cross doing on in this shrine? Like why do they assume that I'm a Christian and she kind of becomes cynical about organized religion. And at the same time nick is coming to investigate the case and we also find out that Charlie, the Gensun, has been selling drugs at school and it turns out that they were Ted drugs, his prescription pills. And Judy finds a nine year the nine year old girl that found Ted's body on the side of the road, and she finds this girl at Henry's choir recital and so jen basically realizes that all her kids are losing it. They're not doing as well as they thought because Charlie selling drugs. Henry's freaking out at this recital, having anger issues. Yeah, he clearly get that from his mom. Yeah, he had a huge outburst. So Um Chris, her realtor partner, says, why don't you take them to my church? And also he, Charlie, has to go to church because of his drug selling habit. It was the only way to avoid the police, and so they kind of get involved in church. And the big reveal at the end of this episode is that the girl who Judy meets that found Ted's body comes over and gives jen some of the evidence that she took from the scene of the crime, which is the headlight to Judy's car, and we owe. Another thing that happens is Charlie has a gun. Oh yeah, so someone happened in this episode. There was a lot going on. Like nick comes over to in his like police uniform to like scare Charlie's it just being like realizing what he did was wrong. But then he's like, I'm going to look through your bag for more drugs, but Charlie's like no, no, don't do that, and when he does, there's like an actual gun in his bag with the safety off, which is incredibly dangerous. Like that could have gone off at any time if like anything in his bag like hit it wrong. So it's also like, I think at this was like also a lesson just to like look out for your kids in times like this. Like yeah, definitely, and it also is kind of pro religion in this sense. Like maybe you, I wouldn't say it's pro religion. I think it's like pro giving your kids the ability to like decide if that's something they want and their life. Yeah, true, but also jen ends up getting more involved with the church. I think that the show kind of like teaches a lesson that, even if you don't exactly agree with everything that the church stands for and like or disagree with organized religion, it's kind of Nice to have a community of people who want to help you. Yeah, even if you dislike religion, which, like, you can agree with, disagree with, but like yourself personally. But I just think that's like maybe what the show is trying to tell us or show us. Yeah, I really appreciate how, like, even though Jen was still like pretty close off, she allows Henry to be baptized and everything. I think that's I don't know, I think that's important to give the kids a choice Lee, even if you don't believe in it, just like supporting them and whatever their decision is. Yeah, exactly. So we also find out the end of the episode that her car is missing from this stoage locker where she's been keeping it. So in episode seven, Judy goes to see about the car and it turns out that he's like breaking it apart so that no one can find it. And there's Jen like loses her job basically because her partner says because of her anger issues, it's really not working. Like she's scaring away clients and one...

...of those coins was the dad from even Stevens. Oh my God, I didn't even know that. Yeah, I the MOM was, or like the wife looks really familiar to but I can't remember what she's from. But basically it's like kind of call for her to work on her anger so she can support her kids. Also, Abe is really there for Judy in this episode. I Love Abe, and we also find out that Ted, which is Jen's hus and, wasn't wearing running shoes when she got when he died, which this the story was kind of that he had gone out from run late at night and got hit. We don't really know why he left at this point. We found it later, but it's like, oh, maybe he was going to meet someone, or maybe he don't know, maybe it was something else, maybe he like jumped in front of the car on purpose. There's also a thing about this time that Judy and Steve went to a rock place and they took sacred rocks and like that's like Judy's very like I feel like she might be Buddhist, but she's I don't know, she's superstitious. Yeah, like she has crystals next to her bed, but at the same time, she also keeps the cross that Jen tried to throw out in the previous episode. Yeah, I don't really know. She may just cut, she might she might just be spiritual. Yeah, but she's all superstitious about the rocks. Yeah, like James Morrison. Let this be a lesson to you. Never steal a rock from a waterfall because it nesses up the ecosystem and it will ruin your life. Yep, pretty much. Also, in this episode we get a James Morrison sex scene. So, Oh yeah, we have no choice, but Oh God, I'm so eight Um at its sode. Eight, JEN is trying to find the people who own the one thousand, nine hundred and sixty six must chang, and she's being sneaky with Judy and nick. She's basically going into other people's houses to appraise them because she's a realtor. But why would anyone let her into their house? Like that's how you get robbed, essentially. You know how, like real tea, real realty works, like do people like normally do that? Just like go around be like Hey, your house looks nice. If you're ever looking to sell, sometimes that'll happen. They'll do an appraisal, but usually they it's not so on the spot, and so I think that was just really kind of bizarre. But yeah, so they're doing that and judy finds out that James is art studio is on the list of addresses that they should be checking out. James, yeah, Tkg Arts is James's art studio, like where he's Oh, James Morris, and sorry, Steve. Sorry, good Lord, I've been referring to him as James Mars. But Um yeah, so it's Steve's art studio. And also, at the same time, Judy Faints and keep starring up, which leads her to believe that she might be pregnant, because she just thinks she is. and Um Nick is trying to take care of her because she he assumes that they're not pregnant, because she thinks that they're exclusive and they haven't been having sex. So he just thinks that she's sick. Not With Corona, though. This was corona, and so a lot happens in this episode two. But Jen kind of goes off the beaten path and decides to take matters into her own hands when they find out a guy who lives four blocks away from the accident had to Duis and so she goes into his house and he he's creepy, he kind of a soulter. She punches him in the nose and Judy finds out that she's not pregnant. She takes a pregnancy test, but then she leaves it sitting out for so long that it turns positive. So she thinks that she had a positive test and it basically ends with Nick cracking the code essentially, and Judy breaking up with him because she's still in love with Steve. Yeah, I didn't really have much on this episode. So, yeah, what the only thing I have? Oh, Oh, I do have some points to bring up actually. So, Oh, I think it's interesting how I feel like all of these problems could have been avoided if Judy and Steve adopted a child. HMM, but none of this would have happened, I think. Yeah, I feel like the whole trajectory of their lives would have been different. I don't know why they didn't do it. Oh, yeah, well, yeah, I don't know. And then the other point was, like, I think Judy's artwork is very interesting, if you want to like discuss that... all. Yeah, I mean that kind of goes into episode nine too. Because in episode nine they're both like trying to live out their dreams. Like at the very beginning Jenser was going to dance classes and Judy's working on her art. Her art is like generally it's like little girls, like realistic is paintings of little girls, but there's like a heart cut out of them, like around their like stomach areas, just like see through in a heart shape. I think it's just like her. It's definitely how she cooked with her miscarriages. She is drawing these children that she'll never have like part of their hearts, and it's like part of her heart is missing and nick found it kind of creepy. It is like a little like kind of creepy, but like like I can see why she's doing it. And like the last art pie she's working on is a painting of herself with the heart out of it, because she's really like now she knows she was never pregnant and she's really lost Steve and nick and there's just a lot going on. Yeah, and she's going through menopause. Yeah, and so in this episode Jenna struggling financially. She goes her mother in law for help, who she doesn't like. And Steve Visits Judy at work and they're like arguing about like what happened the night that Ted died, and then Abe was around the corner and he found out just like no A. I thought he was like something bad is going to happen right then, but he was like like what do you want to do? And she was like I want to tell the truth, and he says, like telling the truth will set you free, and I really thought like Abe was like this guiding light for her, which is like she really needed. So what she does, which is dumb but like I kind of get it, she goes to the COPS and sells them that Steve is a money launder for these Greek businessmen and that's like why he knows Greek and whatever. So they're starting that investigation and then Jen's kids move out because they're mad at her. They go to the mother in law and JEN so upset they're like outside drinking and I don't know what like brought it on, like I can't remember. least there's something. But Judy tells Jen that she's the one who hit Ted and Jon's like like get out, like I never want to see you again. Obviously valive reaction. She goes to the nursing home to talk to Abe about it and Abees died and I was so upset. Like no, the best man in this whole show. Yeah, I loved him. There was like just like a lot that one on that episode. Here's there's so much. Oh. What I thought was interesting about this episode is Laurna is talking about the butterfly effect. HMM. I just thought like it's interesting saying how one incident created all of this and the more that we find out about what happened, Um, it kind of shifts the blame on a bunch of different people. It kind of shows that like its stems all the way back for years, this one incident that changed everyone's lives forever. Like, I don't it's I don't know. I just thought that was interesting. They're like how to be a lot of things that fell into place for all of this to happen. I think that's kind of like yeah, like it even goes so far back to when Jen was nineteen years old and her mom died of breast cancer. Like there's so many incidents that that it. You can trace this all the way back to even Jen's childhood. Yeah, that made this incident happen, which kind of like makes you think a little bit about fate. And Yeah, another thing is why? So I had a question. So Judy's art can go for up to Twentyzeros that I was like, wow, it's that true, because I know that the art studio place was just a front for the Greek mafia business Um. But it's her art really worth that much? If so, why can she not support herself financially? I think she can, like artist been really the price, and work at whatever they want to like, whatever they think it's worth. I think an any gallery will be up, up sold to cover gallery costs as well. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if she ever actually sold the piece of art. That might be why she gets support herself financially, but she also might just like, really like what she does if she has like sold on lot art. Yeah, but also at the same time, you if no one's buying your art, you might want to lower your price. It might have been Steve. He might have set them. Yeah, he seems very controlling over her. So another thing that I don't...

...really like is Dudy has free will. She could have very well turned herself in at the beginning of all of this. Yes, of course Steve was like no, can't look back. Judy very well could have herself. Just because she was convinced by Steve not to doesn't mean she's a better person than him. I think her like thing, like I think, like Steve manipulated her, but like her thing, like to make it right. was like, and she explains it. She's like I thought, like by becoming your friend, I could like be there for you and like make it okay, like that that's right, or anything like. If you hit someone, please stay at the scene and turn yourself in. But I think that's kind of where her justification was for that. Yeah, I mean, I guess everyone just blames Steve For this incident that happened, but Steve wasn't behind the wheel. Steve didn't ultimately make the decision not to turn back like jet Judy could have easily. She was the one with steering. She could have turned around and gone back to the crime called the police. Maybe TEB would be alive. But she was scared. I think she was scared of what Steve would do to her. I mean, yeah, but I don't know. He connections with the Greek Mafia. Also, at the same time, he never, he never hurt her. You can be pretty emotionally abusive and clearly financially as well. I don't know. I just think that it was her decision to make and that Steve isn't all to blame for this. Yes, he's on a blame, but I don't think it's that simple. Judy's not that Independent. She like, she is drunk, like she can't like anything she does. She's still like with Steve, you know. Yeah, but also, at the same time she has leverage over Steve. She's always had leverage over Steve. She knew about his connections and still she didn't think she was strong enough or that, and he didn't think she was strong enough to use that against him. She's thought he had enough power over him, or she had enough power over her like that. She would never do that because she was so in love with him. Yeah, but you can't use love as an excuse to try and get away with murder. No, I know, but like, that's what he I think he assumed that she would never, like betray him like that because she was so dependent on him. I guess us, I mean your dependence on someone still can't really justify your actions. You can't call the by it's just why she did it. She like, she just can't. She's not independent at all. Yeah, I see, she had jen, I guess. I mean, like, what I'm saying is that, Everon solely blame Steve for all of this, like he's an awful person. He is manipulative, but also, at the same time, I think that just because Judy did what she did for a reason doesn't make it any better. No, it does at all better, but I think that's why she did what she did. HMM, I don't know, I just kind of hate judy a little bit. They all suck. Yeah, I mean I like I think that Jen is the way she is because of what what happened to Ted. I think that Judy's to blame for that and she kind of makes herself seem so innocent. I see through that. Yeah, Jen doesn't. She's not. Jen doesn't get the whole picture like we do. I know. I just think that JEN is a master miniful. Judy is a master manipulator. Yeah, I mean she is. Okay, we can go into the last episode. Yeah, so everyone's lives are falling apart. Essentially Um Jen doesn't tell anyone about judy until she turns she doesn't tell anyone in her life about judy, but jen ends up turning judy into the police and the police don't really do anything about it it because there's an investigation on something bigger at hand, which is James Marsden, Steve being tied to the mafia, and Jen sets up a lot of cameras in her house and outside of her house. Judy isn't really supposed to be around any of them, essentially, and she shows up to Henry's church recital practice and gives her him gives Henry a bird thats supposed to be representative of Ted from previous episodes. And Jen is trying to make new friends because she doesn't really have any and she can't really get along with anyone, essentially, except Judy. And Judy Closes Out Steve and hers joint checking account and takes all of the money and puts it into cashier's checks and we find out that she gave it to five hundred thousand dollars to Henry, which is kind of left unsaid at the end of the episode. We don't really know why. and Oh we know why. We just don't know what they're gonna do with it. Yeah,...

...but, like, I guess she feels guilty and she she knows he's struggling financially and that's how she can help them. Okay. And so the episode ends with Steve Explaining that he was in the car when it all happened. He shows up at JEN's house and it explains all of that, and Judy wants to jump in front of a car herself because she thinks that's somehow going to make things right or I don't know. She's spiraling at this point, like her life is falling apart, and JEN ends up shooting Steve and she calls judy over and that's how the season ends. Yeah, there's a lot that happened in that episode, but I think I got it all. I'm like worried that they're couldn't make the same mistake in the next season. You know what we say? Are Not going to like they're not going to go to the police. Oh Yeah, because in TV shows no one goes to the police when so annoying. They actually should. They should because she had been talking to one of her neighbors earlier and her neighbor was like, if someone will leave your house, you can and like you tell them to leave and they won't leave, you can shoot them and not have a consequence. I don't know to that is, I'm sure depends what stay here and whatever. But like, I feel like with her knowing that, or thinking she knows that, she should go to the police. Plus, if she has ring cameras set up all around her house, there's video evidence of what happened and it also records sound to see you can hear the whole conversation. My other question is, how did her kids like, maybe they did and we don't know, but how did her kids not wake up? They're they're both act now and it's like I'm sure they would have heard a gunshot exactly. I mean, I guess that's left for season two. Yeah, okay. My questions to you are, do you think that Judy is a sociopath? Definitely, okay, and do you feel bad for her? Um, I feel bad for her for the way that Steve is manipulated her. I don't feel like she shouldn't be implicated in what she did, is it? Like? I don't like. I think she was in a bad situation. But that doesn't discount like what she did. Like she she should have gone to the police and told them that the actual truth. Like she did tell them a truth about Steve, but she didn't like she should have. She should have turned herself in, and that would have been a better situation for her anyway. HMM, so true. Yeah, yeah, I do kind of think she's a sociopath. She has no problem lying so easily. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know, it does like come second nature to her, and even from the first episode you can see that she's such like it's really easy for her, and that's like that can be really concerning. HMM, I'm a terrible liar. So, oh my, there's that. Can't about anything. I will laugh and get really sweaty. But honestly, like I'm really excited to keep going, like watch the second season of this. I think it's going to be really good. Yeah, so do I. I don't really think this show was, um, that much of a comedy, though. I. Yeah, I mean they they try to light it up with like humor. As I call it a mystery. I wouldn't call it, like what a project comedy. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, it's kind of like knives out. Yeah, but I guess they don't have like a category in the emmys for mystery TV shows. Yeah, I think that if it were in a different category it would have won. Cool. Yeah, well, I think we both really liked it. Yeah, I'm super happy with this week. I think it was great. We got our show for next week. We're super prepared. If you want to follow us on social media, you can find us on instagram and facebook at how we never podcast and on twitter at how we never. We're also on Youtube if you want to search us there, and we'll see you next week. Yes, all right by hey, congratulations, you've made it to the end of our podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening. How have we never seen this before is produced by is bomarone. The music is by Scott Holmes. The podcast art is by Michael Beaumont over at monitor comics, and our social media is run by Lauren Coola. Thanks for listening.

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